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bendy

Bendy's XE power 400 project

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PS couple more things!

Another axle option is the 4ha if you didn't want to go to an independent setup, we're put a lot on here about them, and I know Kev Abbott is going that route. We've done a couple and are doing one in an ascona 400R and another in a manta.........

Other thing is, a bit of a plug, just in case anybody is out off blasting by your tale of woe!

We can offer media blastingthumbsup.gif, at a very competitive rate.......Points to note are, 1) we don't use sand! Its illegal to use in any case, and the operator using sand can be fined £25,000 if caught using it by HSE!! 2) we use crushed glass, which though a touch more expensive, does a better job FAR faster!! 3) All hollow sections would be blown out, by the blaster with the grit turned off. 200+CFM of air through the rails usually clears MOST of the media out. Some will always be left behind I'm afraid, just tends to happen, but it should not be much!

PS PS looking at the pics, there's still lots of underseal on the car AFTER blasting..................................

They should have asked you to remove the bulk of the underseal first, or charged you to do it themselves first. Generally, rubberbased underseal won't come off with the blaster, of if it does it takes far to long to be economic.................

If you have a look at the earlier pics in our Ascona 400R build thread on here you'll see the underseal stripping, and the condition after blasting. Bear in mind that the front floorpans on that were being cut out so no need to clean those!

Edited by Retro Power

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Novashed, ive been keeping an eye on yours for some pics on how your rear end works out :thumbup

As for a geometry nightmare, it could well be! ive just bought a 328i for spares for my own 328. I reckon since im going to have a car for scrap soon i can cut the rear end out of it, after bracing it all up and then take a look at measuring 300 times and possibly cutting once! I personally imagine a manta would go well enough with a 328i engine, its a great engine in my opinion. But since ive got an XE all built up ready to go i think ill stick with it at this point!

The ideal scenario would be taking the bmw arches and turrets the lot into the manta i suppose rather than trying to graft the subframe, mounts and all points accurately into the manta. Ill just have to get the measuring tape out when i get this 328 stripped down.

As for the blasting i wasnt worried about the old underseal, i said if its lasted over 20 years just leave it be. I just wanted the rust cleaned off. Its crushed glass they use. Pretty much just turns into sand though doesnt it!! When you live where id do i probably wont be taking you up on any blasting, would be closer for me to get my car to norway than down to england! :lol:

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The idea of using a BMW rear suspension to be able to use thier limited slip diffs is something my friend and i have comtemplated.

here's the but.... the trailing arms on this type of suspension do not swing up vertical they adopt a little negative camber (top of the wheel leaning in) under compression,this is to compensate for body roll,which will differ from vehicle to vehicle in various circumstances.

To fit a BMW rear suspension would entail going into the scary world of suspension geometary and calculating such things as roll centres etc to make sure the new set up wont turn the car inside out at the first corner.

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Novashed, ive been keeping an eye on yours for some pics on how your rear end works out :thumbup

As for a geometry nightmare, it could well be! ive just bought a 328i for spares for my own 328. I reckon since im going to have a car for scrap soon i can cut the rear end out of it, after bracing it all up and then take a look at measuring 300 times and possibly cutting once! I personally imagine a manta would go well enough with a 328i engine, its a great engine in my opinion. But since ive got an XE all built up ready to go i think ill stick with it at this point!

The ideal scenario would be taking the bmw arches and turrets the lot into the manta i suppose rather than trying to graft the subframe, mounts and all points accurately into the manta. Ill just have to get the measuring tape out when i get this 328 stripped down.

As for the blasting i wasnt worried about the old underseal, i said if its lasted over 20 years just leave it be. I just wanted the rust cleaned off. Its crushed glass they use. Pretty much just turns into sand though doesnt it!! When you live where id do i probably wont be taking you up on any blasting, would be closer for me to get my car to norway than down to england! :lol:

Yea you are a touch north of us lol!!

I wouldn't panic too much on the BMW rear geometry, as with anything its just a case of measuring up properly. Not the easiest to fit, but its been done a few times. As I said, if you struggle and need a strong live axle, the 4HA is a good option. Still not a 5 min job to fit, but it takes 500hp so does the trick, and takes a stock jaguar powerlock diff in it.

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mantaman- you are correct in your statement of the rear camber, hence if you look at my build the brackets will be moved around and mounting points exteneded to 'dial out' the negative camber caused by nature of the setup, because im in effect running 100mm+ lowering when compared to an e30 original setup, carefull measurement and some degree of adjustability will be all thats needed to ensure an effective setup,............i hope.

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Retro Power, which cars had the 4HA fitted?

Hi, if you do a search on here you should find a few posts describing it, but basically you are after a Reliant Scimitar GTE axle, and it needs to be an SE6 model, post 1976 (the SE5 ran up till '76). The SE5 axle is narrower, and ideal for kadetts or manta A applications.

Its not a bolt in job I hasten to add, but its bulletproof, cheap and you can still get all the bits as they are common to a lot of Jag bits that were used until very recently.

aha, just found the article that we wrote for the kadett forum:

"Carloskadett was just asking if I could post up a bit of info on upgrading the Kadett axle, so here goes. I'm sure most of you will know a lot of this info, but some might not.

Firstly, the 'usual' upgrade is to the Manta A axle. This is exactly the same construction as the Manta B but with narrower tubes and halfshafts.

The swap is relatively simple. You need to swap the front crossmember from the Chevette axle (which can be de-spot welded from the torque-tube bush housing and swapped very neatly). You also need to swap the panhard-rod mount to the opposite spring hanger. You will find the axle does not quite sit centrally - the best bet is to weld a threaded adjuster into the panhard rod so you can adjust it to sit perfectly in the middle.

With the Manta A axle, you can go to ET28 on 6" wheels with unmodified arch lips which would be ET40 on 7" wheels. The problems you will face on wheel choice is that the fronts get a lot of neg camber on droop and foul the shocks. To have no fouling at any suspension position, and unmodified lips, then max width is 6" with ET between 28 and 40.

Manta A pros:

Relatively easy fit

Perfect width

Can get LSD

Will take 200BHP if driven fairly gently!

Manta A cons:

Rebuild cost is very high - bearing set is over £300 alone - only FAG still do them.

Getting hard to come by now

LSD expensive

Will break with over 200BHP if used hard (ie. drag racing/drifting etc) either diff or torque tube.

Ok, so here is the big question - what to go for if you want big power and reliability. In my opinion the Salisbury 4HA.

The 4HA is an axle design that is available in a lot of different widths, and was fitted to a lot of different vehicles, from old Jags, to Astons, to Thwaite dumper trucks!! This has the bonus that a vast range of ratios are available, from around 2.5:1 to 7:1!

The 4HA's that are a useful width were fitted to the Reliant Scimitar. The Scimitar SE5 (1968-1975, pointy front) axle is approx 54" between drum faces, ideal for the Kadett/Chevette. The Scimitar SE6 axle (1975-1986, flat front) is around 56", ideal for Manta B/Ascona B.

As standard they have a 4-link and watts linkage setup, although the links are not in a useful position, so the standard brackets need removing.

The cool part is due to the fact the basic diff design was used in a lot of other vehicles. First off the watts linkage diff cover can be swapped for a non-watts linkage tin cover from a Jag axle. Secondly, and most importantly the diffs from almost any Jag axle (including the later IRS type diffs from Jag XJ/XJS) will fit, and Jag Powrlok LSD's are easy to come by and cheap - they were fitted to all V12 models, XJR's and an option on all XJ/XJS. Also the Jags have a good selection of ratios, 3.54 is very common, and 3.71 available (usually on the 2.9l XJ40). You should be able to get a powrlok diff in perfect order for £150.

As for fitting the axle, you will need to 5-link it. The axle tube is the same diameter as an Atlas, so a standard 5-link kit from Rally Design will be perfect. The standard panhard rod mount on the shell can be used, so you just need to weld in the link boxes and mounts. You can then use coilovers into the standard turrets.

The axle is very strong, I've never heard of one breaking. 500+ BHP should be no problem.

4HA pros:

VERY strong

Cheap to rebuild

JAG LSD fits and is cheap

Wide range of ratios available

Available in a suitable width for the Kadett

4HA cons:

Requires some fabrication work on the shell (link boxes/brackets) so no back seat!

Getting harder to find."

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Thank you Retro-Power for your comprehensive answer. I went to great lengths to fit a narrowed Commodore B axle to my V8 A series. I even had new half shafts made! wish I had known about this before.

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Yea we've done some learning the hard way too! There's not really a right or wrong way, I know some use a Ford 9" axle to good effect too, but its what you get used to.

While there are lots of scimitars available for very little money, the 4ha makes a good solution (its MUCH stronger than a commodore axle), especially as jag ratios are ten a penny, relatively, and there are some really nice ratios.

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I'm getting a 4HA fitted with a jag powerlok diff to my ascona!!!:lol: Spent alot of time looking into this as the commo axle is sooooo expensive with LSD!

Guess who is fitting it...........................

RETROPOWER of course:thumbup

As they have said cheap and very strong . Found the axle and diff on flea bay.B)

Edited by cact1972

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Hi again folks, amid the mayhem i mangaed to find somewhere to keep my manta and all my parts. i have a new house after staying with a friend and sometime in the near future this project will be underway again

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Believe it or not this project has been in pretty poor shed being stored for over 4 years, some of it is back to square one but i now have somewhere to work on the car which is dry, plenty big enough and the whole thing has been moved. Should be getting things going again soon once I get a proper look at what i still have left to do etc 

 

Just renewed my membership this afternoon

Edited by bendy
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On 07/12/2015 at 07:43, bendy said:

As you can see ive really got no excuses now, plenty of space to work on the car... Only problem is its absolutely freezing cold! starting work on the shell in january all being well

Any updates on this now that we are 3 years further on?

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