Mantaray80 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Well, I've decided that I doubt the Manta 5 speed will take the power and torque that I hope my Vee will put out so been on the search for an alternative. My question is, to anyone who knows, what, if anything, is the difference between a 2.5/3.0 Omega box and a 2.0 Omega box? Manual of course. Seen some of each on E-Bay and the 2.0 is said to be an R25-28, which as I understand it is the same box as fitted to the V6. Or is it? Can anyone clarify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyc Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Well three options for what i've looked at. First is the Ford Type 9 with a 16v Bell housing as used on the valver conversions. Good strong box, lots of parts available from specialist rally companies. has speedo cable and cable clutch. Second is a late 2.0 Carlton box which has the same ratios and size as the later Omege box. Good box, not easy to find, has speedo drive and cable clutch. will need to "adjust" the tunnel around the bellhousing a bit, rear mount adjustment and prop. Third is the Omega box. easier to find but will need the same as above plus its a hydro clutch and you'll need to workout a speedo drive as the Omega didn't have a drive in the gear box. I'm going for the Omega box on mine because i've got one the came with the engine. The hydro shouldn't be to much of a problem and i think i've sorted out the speedo drive Let us know how you get on with this, esp on the sump, engine mounts and the wiring Cheers Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantaray80 Posted June 24, 2010 Author Share Posted June 24, 2010 (edited) Cheers for the reply Andy. I discounted the Type 9 as I've been told it's not that strong. Ok for a standard-ish Xe, but not much else. Can't afford the upgrade kits for them. The V6 Type 9 might be better.... As you say, Carlton boxes are rare.... My V6 as it was in the Calibra was rolling roaded at 183 bhp/183 lb/ft. And that was as standard with a blowing exhaust. Will be removing the PS and AC pumps, losing the cat and doing a few other choice mods to it (inlets, exhaust), so 200+ bhp is easily in reach. Been looking at T5's but they are a confusing array of types and ratios.... Omega box was designed for it, so I think thats my best option.... The hyd clutch is a bit of a problem, but not insurmountable! The speedo drive....well, could look at using an Omega speedo and sensors. (not sure if Cali uses sensors or cable?) Sump will be a modified Calibra one. Engine mounts will be made up as I get to them, but at the moment I'm looking at modified Manta ones... Wiring.......yikes! Cross that bridge when I get to it!! As I'm using a Calibra donor, I don't have the problem of the transponder in the key at least! Andy, can I ask, is your gearbox an R25-28? As I'm aware, thats the V6 box, but I've seen one on E-bay that's from a 2.0... Edited June 24, 2010 by Mantaray80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamchop77 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Well, I've decided that I doubt the Manta 5 speed will take the power and torque that I hope my Vee will put out so been on the search for an alternative. My question is, to anyone who knows, what, if anything, is the difference between a 2.5/3.0 Omega box and a 2.0 Omega box? Manual of course. Seen some of each on E-Bay and the 2.0 is said to be an R25-28, which as I understand it is the same box as fitted to the V6. Or is it? Can anyone clarify? Just for info the Getrag 240 box is good for 240 ft/lbs of torque so i would think could handle the v6 power, guys are running high power 2.5 CIHs with 230-250bhp with the std box. They are a good strong box if looked after. The type 9 sierra box is not strong at all, i managed to break a good one with a 1312 midget engine!! The heavy duty type 9 as fitted to the 2.8 Capri/Granada is a strong box, you can push about 400bhp through them. HTH Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 R25/28 is a very good box mainly found in the 2.5 they take plenty of power and abuse. The 3.0 box as fitted to the MV6 is another animal, was mainly fitted to the police cars as most normal mv6 were auto, they will take anything you fire at them but hard to find and go for around 300 to 350. Sounds a lot but when you compare the prices to the v8 engine boxes like the 6 speed t56 , tremec etc they are about £2500 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantaray80 Posted June 24, 2010 Author Share Posted June 24, 2010 Just for info the Getrag 240 box is good for 240 ft/lbs of torque so i would think could handle the v6 power, guys are running high power 2.5 CIHs with 230-250bhp with the std box. They are a good strong box if looked after. Chris Yes, I thought that too, but is it 240 ft/lb or is it 240 Nm? Seeing as it's a German box, and the Getrag website only deals in Nm.... Got my eye on several boxes, a T5 from a TVR, an R25-28 from a 2.0 Omega, an ex cop MV6 box. Just don't know which to go for. Getrag 240 fits straight on but possiblity of breaking it on the drag strip. T5 uses manual clutch and speedo, but needs bellhousing and modification to fit. R25-28/MV6 needs hyd clutch and electronic speedo... Decisions decisions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamchop77 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 (edited) Yes, I thought that too, but is it 240 ft/lb or is it 240 Nm? Seeing as it's a German box, and the Getrag website only deals in Nm.... Got my eye on several boxes, a T5 from a TVR, an R25-28 from a 2.0 Omega, an ex cop MV6 box. Just don't know which to go for. Getrag 240 fits straight on but possiblity of breaking it on the drag strip. T5 uses manual clutch and speedo, but needs bellhousing and modification to fit. R25-28/MV6 needs hyd clutch and electronic speedo... Decisions decisions.... Yeah its 240 nm, just been on another forum to check. Allegedly they reckon that the R boxes are not better than the Getrags and are only a few Nm up on the std 240 box. 265 Getrag is the way to go but i bet these are like hens teeth. Just so you know the type 9 fitted with a quaife setup will only be ok to 220 bhp and then if it breaks you have no comeback. Info courtesey of my mate who priced it up for a car of his. This is one of the headaches with doin this sort of stuff!!! HTH Chris Edited June 24, 2010 by lamchop77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantaray80 Posted June 24, 2010 Author Share Posted June 24, 2010 Yeah its 240 nm, just been on another forum to check. Allegedly they reckon that the R boxes are not better than the Getrags and are only a few Nm up on the std 240 box. HTH Chris Yea, 240 Nm is only 177 lb/ft which is less than my V6 is putting out as standard.... Would have thought the R25 would be much better as it was mated with this engine. There'd have to be some margin for error... I would still go with a Manta box, for ease, if I knew it would take the abuse! It's all so confusing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamchop77 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Yea, 240 Nm is only 177 lb/ft which is less than my V6 is putting out as standard.... Would have thought the R25 would be much better as it was mated with this engine. There'd have to be some margin for error... I would still go with a Manta box, for ease, if I knew it would take the abuse! It's all so confusing! The r25 box is 250nm so thats 184ft/lbs, the r28 is 280nm, but remember that a factor of safety will have been built in so you can sometimes get away with a bit more. There's always the cryogenic freeze route where the gearbox components are frozen at whatever silly minus temp for 24 hrs, it realigns the molecules in the metal and makes the material stronger. This has been tested on Chinook rotor gears and also on the sunny GTIr gearboxes with success. Take a look on OpelGT forum, Vagos from greece runs a high spec 2.5 cih 178 bhp at the wheels, 188ft/lbs of torque drag racing on a std 240 Getrag. HTH Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantaray80 Posted June 24, 2010 Author Share Posted June 24, 2010 The r25 box is 250nm so thats 184ft/lbs, the r28 is 280nm, but remember that a factor of safety will have been built in so you can sometimes get away with a bit more. 280 Nm is 206 lb/ft....is it enough? Not sure...depends on how much of a margin they give. The car will be my fun car, for messing around in, track days and drag racing at PVS. It'll get some serious abuse.... Oh and what's an R25-28 then? There's always the cryogenic freeze route where the gearbox components are frozen at whatever silly minus temp for 24 hrs, it realigns the molecules in the metal and makes the material stronger. How much would that cost? This has been tested on Chinook rotor gears and also on the sunny GTIr gearboxes with success. Intersting range of comparisons, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamchop77 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 280 Nm is 206 lb/ft....is it enough? Not sure...depends on how much of a margin they give. The car will be my fun car, for messing around in, track days and drag racing at PVS. It'll get some serious abuse.... Oh and what's an R25-28 then? How much would that cost? Intersting range of comparisons, lol R25's and r28's were both fitted to the omegas. The freezin process i'm not sure, don't think its too silly BUT you have to totally strip the gearbox to individual components. The process was first tried on the Chinook rotors and then sort of filtered down to the tuning scene. The GTIr's were blowing boxes at about 400 bhp, after treatment they were getting closer to 500. Think i'd be more worried about the clutch and axle. HTH Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantaray Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I have been running the 1.8 manta box on my V6 in the A (215bhp)with no problem regarding power. The only prob I've had is when drag racing, distroying sincro on 2nd by trying to change from 1st to 2nd at 6000rpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 (edited) I have been running the 1.8 manta box on my V6 in the A (215bhp)with no problem regarding power. The only prob I've had is when drag racing, distroying sincro on 2nd by trying to change from 1st to 2nd at 6000rpm there are chaps running over 300BHP threw the MV6 boxes so of you were in any doubt surely that would be the box to go for, the r25/28 sitting beside the mv6 looks kinda small, apparently they are good for well over 400Nm Edited June 25, 2010 by Robbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantaray80 Posted June 25, 2010 Author Share Posted June 25, 2010 I have been running the 1.8 manta box on my V6 in the A (215bhp)with no problem regarding power. The only prob I've had is when drag racing, distroying sincro on 2nd by trying to change from 1st to 2nd at 6000rpm That's the problem I'm worried about. I plan to at least do PVS every year and maybe a few RWYB's. Especially as my son is getting his license and is into the scene too....( and my daughter, but she's only 13, lol) I think I'm down to a choice then of an MV6 box, a T5, or a V6 Type 9....Each has it's merits and drawbacks..... Oh, does anyone know if the MV6 gear shifter assy is similar to the Manta 240? From the pics it looks it. The one I'm looking at comes without a shifter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 (edited) .. Oh, does anyone know if the MV6 gear shifter assy is similar to the Manta 240? From the pics it looks it. The one I'm looking at comes without a shifter... 240 uses the same gear shifter as the normal 5 speed mantas, omega boxes are a different linkage Edited June 25, 2010 by Robbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantaray80 Posted June 25, 2010 Author Share Posted June 25, 2010 240 uses the same gear shifter as the normal 5 speed mantas, omega boxes are a different linkage Cheers. I meant the Manta 5 speed/Getrag240. Ok. So I'll need to find a stick then if I go for the MV6 or R25...... Just need to decide....Do I go for the Omega box and have to find a gearstick, prop, convert the clutch and speedo.... ....or do I go for a Type 9 V6 or T5 and have to fork out for a bellhousing. I already have a Ford/manta prop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Hi, just for your info the tvr t5 box has a different output spline than the sierra cosworth t5. I used a tvr t5 dogbox on a mk2 escort that I built and crossed a few hurdles to make it fit. Recoprop supply a splined end that mates up to a ford hardy spicer joint,there is also a company that does a conversion using a vauxhall hydraulic clutch release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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