Manta A Brake Upgrade

[moodoo]

Folks,

I've read through a lot of the threads on here about various brake upgrades for the Manta. I have an A-series, and was wondering if it is possible to

upgrade the brakes, but still keep the standard 13" wheels? I want to keep her looking standard if I can.

I've read this thread http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/24394-my-opel-manta-a-19s-luxus-1973/page__st__20 , where he uses Audi discs and Vectra

calipers, but he finds that they will only fit under 13" ATS wheels.

Is there anything similar that can be used, and still go under the standard 13" steel wheel?

Thanks in advance.

Fin

[mantasrme]

Its odd that there isn't room under the standard steel, usually there is more room under a steel than an alloy of the same size.

But it does depend how the steel is designed and where it dishes in.

I know the audi/vectra brake setup fits under weller 13" steels as i've run them before.

The smaller brake upgrade is carlton 2.2 calipers and vented discs, these bolt directly onto the mantas without any machining needed.

They are smaller than the audi stuff so should fit under your rims (although i've never tried it myself!)

[costasa]

Folks,

I've read through a lot of the threads on here about various brake upgrades for the Manta. I have an A-series, and was wondering if it is possible to

upgrade the brakes, but still keep the standard 13" wheels? I want to keep her looking standard if I can.

I've read this thread http://forums.mantac...73/page__st__20 , where he uses Audi discs and Vectra

calipers, but he finds that they will only fit under 13" ATS wheels.

Is there anything similar that can be used, and still go under the standard 13" steel wheel?

Thanks in advance.

Fin

Hello Fin,

My option to the vectra calipers and audi disks where the price.

You have another option that is the calipers and disks from opel Record E 2.2i in England was Carlton with this setup you can fit the standard 13'' wheels

Another option but more expensive is to put the record E (Carlton) disks and willwood calipers.

[rutts]

carlton/record 2.2 discs with astra gte mk1 calipers fit nicely and work ok with green stuff ebc pads. record/carlton calipers are expensive now £50 each but astra ones are £22 each recon on ebay now.

[moodoo]

Thanks to all for the advice. Seems like 2.2 Carlton/Rekord discs would be the way to go, then the question is calipers...from what Rutts has said, Astra GtE Mk1 calipers are likely to be the more economical option than Rekord calipers. Only snag is that the Astra GTE Mk1 Calipers were originally for 256mm discs I think, so I don't think they'll clear the wheel?

Looks like there's no way to fit 256mm calipers under the standard 13" rims. Having vented 246mm discs/calipers (Rekord) will really only mean an increase in the unspring weight (heavier disc, bigger caliper), for maybe not much braking improvement, as they'll be the same diameter discs as standard?

Thanks again all...I'm still learning about what works with all of this!!

Edited October 1, 2010 by moodoo

[Shug]

The 256 will fit under ats wheels. It's the metal 'tabs' where the face connects to the wheel that catches the caliper with the rostyles. Grinding the caliper nay help but I really couldnt recommend it!

[rutts]

you will find that astra gte mk1 calipers are for 246mm discs so no probles from what i see. get the carlton discs kissed up at an engineers easy. my local guy charges £10 to do audi 80 256mm to manta conversion.

Edited October 2, 2010 by rutts

[moodoo]

Shug - No..wouldn't be on for grinding the calipers either!

Rutts - thanks, I looked on a few brake websites last night, but thought the astra calipers seemed to be for 256mm, but I stand corrrected. Will look again later.

If I can get the Carlton discs I won't need them machined, right?

Thanks again guys,

Fin

[moodoo]

Sorry, but I can't find any astras listed anywhere with 246mm, only 236 or 256...? Anyone point me in the right direction?

[costasa]

Sorry, but I can't find any astras listed anywhere with 246mm, only 236 or 256...? Anyone point me in the right direction?

I think that the astra calipers are the same as the vectra calipers that i use (some one correct me if i'm wrong) and this calipers are to 256mm disks

There are some people that use vectra calipers with the carlton(vectra disks) but you will have a small gap at the top.

The best option it will be the carlton calipers and disks to fit under the 13'' try to search in UK ebay maibe you will find a good deal.

(Because i live in Portugal my best option was to find the vectra calipers and put the audi disks)

Good luck

[mantasrme]

Brake disc and caliper sizes on vauxhalls are a pain in the arse

They offered many different sizes of disc and caliper combo on each model series through the years.

The only way of knowing if the caliper is the one your after is by confirming what size disc it came from.

For vented discs over the years Astra's have had 236x20 256x20 256x24 280x24 288x24 (plus whatever the VXR is now running)

The rest of the range also have had all these sizes plus 240x20 260x20 260x24 284x24 296x28 plus a few others that aren't listed on my brake disc cataloge

So its very hard to say the caliper you want comes from a certain version of a model.

Mk1 Astra GT/e 1.8 SHOULD have the smaller vented disc and calipers which my catalogue lists as 236x24mm but they only list as a pre 1984 car

1984-1991 might have had the 236x20 or the 256x24, and after 1991 it could have any of 4 differnt sizes

The other problem is as mk1 astras are getting on a bit who's to say the original discs and calipers haven't been upgraded to a larger size?

So just buying calipers from a mk1 Gt/e could get you anything.

The only way to be sure is ask the seller what the disc size is/was

or goto your local scrapyard with a tape measure and source your own

If you goto SapMotorparts they have an online catalogue for discs that list all the models the smaller vented discs were fitted to

From a quick look there were 17 different versions of the astra with them fitted, so should be plenty around

[moodoo]

Thanks to all for advice so far.

Just starting to seriously look about the 2.2 Carlton upgrade now.

However...given that my bog standard Manta calipers are 2-piston, fixed calipers, and the Rekord ones (or early Astra GTE) are single-piston...will the Rekord brakes actually be an improvement over the standard A-series calipers? The vented discs will also be a deal heavier than the solid discs.

Is it really a step forward?

[Shug]

Thanks to all for advice so far.

Just starting to seriously look about the 2.2 Carlton upgrade now.

However...given that my bog standard Manta calipers are 2-piston, fixed calipers, and the Rekord ones (or early Astra GTE) are single-piston...will the Rekord brakes actually be an improvement over the standard A-series calipers? The vented discs will also be a deal heavier than the solid discs.

Is it really a step forward?

Compare the size of brake pads. Manta is 2 piston, but the pads are the size of a postage stamp. (ok, slight exaggeration but they are small!)

There is probably as much area on one cavalier/astra/etc pad as there is on both manta ones.

[mantasrme]

Is it really a step forward?

Vented discs over solid is a step forwards, as is a more modern caliper.

But it depends why you actually want to upgrade the brakes.

Have you got a more powerful engine?

If so you want more powerful brakes this can be done in various ways.

Either Larger diameter discs (more leverage), more pad area (more friction), better compound of pad (more friction), or larger piston area (more clamping force, but also more pedal travel)

But if you're happy with the performance but have suffered brake fade from overheating you could just change to vented discs and better quality pads to stop this problem.

Of course the other solution to overheating brakes is to drive slower

[moodoo]

Reason is 2 fold I guess...1, the brakes currently are what I would describe as 'just OK'....and 2, I would consider going 2.2 or 2.4 in the future, so a brake upgrade first would seem to be a good idea...

Good point on the bigger pad area. Started to think about the 'more pedal travel' due to larger piston area, bit. If I do the conversion, I'll be moving from 2 smaller pistons, to one larger piston - but does the sliding action of the Carlton caliper mean it actually acts (in terms of moving a volume of fluid) as if it had 2 larger pistons?