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Senator Engine Into Manta


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Always a fan of the straight 6 for and against topics.

Myself I always wonder why they stopped putting the straight 6 into modern cars...... Hmm replaced by modern lighter engines at a guess.

Straight 6's though are generally lovely smooth torquey lumps, but If I was going to the hassle of doing a stright 6 it would definately be a Skyline straight 6, would never contemplate the GM unit for one minute and definately not the GM 2.5 lump.

Would also go to say....

Handling

Laws of physics simply dictate that to change the given mass moving in a certain direction will take X amount of effort

To change the direction of more mass moving in a certain direction will take more effort.

Ok so springs are designed to absorb cornering energy amongst other things but, I simply and totally refuse to believe that the laws of physics do not exist in straight 6 engined Manta's. Handling must suffer.

But then again if I had gone to the time effort and expense of fitting one I I may possibly tell a bit of a porky and say "NAH!,,,, Nah!,,,,, NAH! handling is spot on Mate!"

Love the comments on the youtube clip "look how fast a straight 6 can go" Throw enough cash at any engine and it will go well, throw a little cash at the right engine and it will go well too is my argument, approx £800 thrown at my old 200SX (1.8 engine) would have seen 250 bhp and that is a well known conservative figure on these 1.8 engines. Superb tiny little lightweight lump approx half the weight and size of the GM straight 6

There are good modern lightweight extremely tuneable superb modern engines with plentiful parts out there, and there are old pig iron lumps that are hard to source parts for out there too, that "may not" enhance the superb handling of the Manta.

^I agree very much with this!

There are few reasons to use a C30NE - however they happen to be the reasons that suit my particular needs. a) It sounds amazing with a decent exhaust B) The torque is there in spades and delivered smoothly c)you get a hard-on for lovely balanced engines d) you want to re-create a "what if vauxhall made this from the factory" type of feel

These are the reasons I have fitted a senator 6 - if I wanted an amazing handling/huge power monster etc etc. then there are plenty of other ways to fit something much better for similar budgets (supposing that you are slinging an engine in without first rebuilding it...) - however I already have a 106 rallye rally car for point-to-point handling and fun of that kind.

Without significant attention to detail in fitting then a 6pot cav/manta still feels a little unwieldy due to the extra weight, it can't fail to, as it weighs a fair bit more. In summary, if you want a high performance car then it might be worth looking elsewhere, however if you want a cruiser which can lay down some serious acceleration and a beautiful soundtrack on a relatively slim budget then you may as well fit a 6pot CIH engine!

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As before, if you try to drive it like a go cart it will tend more towards understeer than the four pot. If you four wheel drift or step the back out, which brings the nose in, it's not so different.

The best thing about the 3.0 though is they make a car that can pull well to overtake at higher speeds and without having to thrash to do it, but seeing as they are a smooth 6 you can rev if you want to.

Also a 3.0 that has had it's life spent attached to an auto and had a less thrashed life is a lot more likely to be making more of it's original BHP than an unrebuilt 24 year old redtop

And if going the redtop route you then need to source an expensive gearbox and sump and mix and match clutch parts

At the end of the day it's horses for courses, outright handling family II engine, budget cruiser with some grunt, straight 6

Next engine for my Manta (eventually) might be the frontera 2.4 with 2.2 plenum and frontera injection I acquired in 1998 or it might be the Ecotec 2.0 from my Vectra as I'm sure that would be nearer to it's 136 BHP than any cheap redtop I might buy as I would run standard injection, plus hoping to keep the ecotec alarm and fob

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Yep, that's is what I'm getting at. Don't get me wrong, my 6pot cav is a joy to drive and feels nice in the corners (plenty of grunt to balance the understeer) but is not a go-kart. If an aftermarket engine is being sourced then budget for 1thou of bore wear per 10 thousand miles on a 6cyl (though probably all types of) CIH engine. They are very strong engines, but you'll find that it is the bore wear which is significant on a high miler.

I also agree about an auto-barge senator with a careful owner having many more horses in the stable as a percentage of those from new than most xe engines!

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OOps sorry G reg 1990

Is it the old 3 speed gearbox?

OOps sorry G reg 1990

1990 was change over year. Do you have a diagnostic socket as per Motronic? Usually near octane plug andnaother sign would be an EML on the dash

I'll look it up tomorow for possibilities

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I wouldnt bother to do alot of work fitting the automatic loom to manual gearbox loom. I would get hold of a loom and box used for a manual car instead. And there are plenty of cars to get theese things from. Best option would be to find a Monza or Senator to get the parts from as especially the last couple of years those cars where made, many of them came with a 5 speed getrag 265..

Alternatly you could consider using the auto transmission in the Manta, but that just wouldn´t feel right i suppose :)

If i where you i´d get an engine and gearbox etc from a manual gear car as they are cheap and easy to find. That way you can take all that you need. The 4 cyl CIH Manta gearbox be the Getrag 240 5 speed or the GM 4 speed will not take the high torque of the CIH 6 anyways.. So you need to adress the gearbox issue anyways..

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So after reading the whole topic, to drift what's better:

A) Opel Manta with tuned 2.0E (mine has now 2.2 block with 2.0 head)

B) Opel Manta with 3.0E from Monza

C) Stock Monza with 3.0E

I've found a cheap Monza from 1981 with this engine and I'm considering a swap or just buying the whole car. I'm not sure if the 3.0E from 1981 has LSD or not. Can't find information.

Thanks!

Edited by Tempesta48
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Monza in standard form gets my seal of approval as it could well have an lsd (if not then just weld the planet gears up if it's not for road use) and they look great and go well anyway. If you're planning on drifting then I would say you are better off starting with the powerful platform and shedding weight from it... the alternative is to spend more time doing an unnecessary engine swap to a car that probably won't handle as well without a fair amount of work.

You pays your money you takes your choice :)

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