Shug Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Ok, this is starting to do my head in! Cannot get my 2.2 started. Traced it to lack of spark. Tho there is the weakest of sparks sometimes, but not enough to fire it up. Ive tried different coils, and igntion modules. All earths on the loom are good. Engine earth strap is good. Injection is fine. Spark plugs are not that old, and look fine. Have cleaned them anyway. I took the coil to distributor lead and tried to get a spark off that but it is so feeble its almost non existant. Any ideas folks? Running out of time for billing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Should I post you the loan box back again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shug Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 lol, if I dont get anywhere this weekend, I might need to. If I could get it to billing, I'll put a tool box and case of beer beside it and call for volunteers! I've been tinkering with it more today. Used different bits to try, still nothing. Only bit not changed was the distributor, and the coil + and -ve from car wiring. wiring bit i used was from distributor to coil and module which I had when I was on carbs. So I guess its either the distributor, or wiring to coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam.in.head Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 has it been running or is this a new installation ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapierdave Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Hi Shug I had a similar problem of an almost non existent spark on starting & traced it to a lack of a 12v feed to the coil when cranking the starter. Normal voltage to the coil assuming its a ballasted feed is only around 7 volts but this will drop to 4 volts on starting. There is normally a separate low tension feed to the coil + connection from an auxiliary contact block on the starter motor solenoid. If you have changed the starter motor to a later design then it may not have that auxiliary block on the solenoid so the coil will not be receiving 12 volt when turning over the engine. I overcame the problem by fitting a relay next to the coil to provide a 12 volt feed whilst starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 12 V at green wire coil terminal? Not using the original translucent yellow resistance wire? Piggy back male / female green wire connector for rev counter / EFI bypassed? These connectors go bad and car will not fire EFI without it but you can test spark Extra earth wire from screw on coil clamp to car body to make sure module and coil well earthed? just let me know when you want it posting. Same rules as before I do want the stuff back in working order. OK if a month or two but pref under a year lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Hi Shug I had a similar problem of an almost non existent spark on starting & traced it to a lack of a 12v feed to the coil when cranking the starter. Normal voltage to the coil assuming its a ballasted feed is only around 7 volts but this will drop to 4 volts on starting. There is normally a separate low tension feed to the coil + connection from an auxiliary contact block on the starter motor solenoid. If you have changed the starter motor to a later design then it may not have that auxiliary block on the solenoid so the coil will not be receiving 12 volt when turning over the engine. I overcame the problem by fitting a relay next to the coil to provide a 12 volt feed whilst starting. I think we did this to death last time he borrowed my load dizzy / coil / module /wiring set lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shug Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 I had it running before I resprayed it. Maybe the extra weight of the paint is causing probs It was on carbs, but lost patience with them. Fitted injection and with Pauls help got it running, albeit a bit rough (air leak I think). not changed anything since it was last running. (other than the paint and headlights!) Car was rewired with a kit car (rapidfit?) loom so no old wires in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shug Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 I cannot find a damn thing wrong with anything on this car, other than the fucking thing won't start! Everything is getting right voltages at right time. Tested coil and getting 3ohm and 10500ohms so that seems ok (it's relatively new). Every earth is good. All wires were intact and connected. Someone commented that if its been sitting a while it might be injecting fuel constantly rather than in pulses, but the message passed on was vague as to why. Now I'm wondering how much this car is worth in parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autocrosser Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 That could well be the case if the injectors have stuck. Is the spark still very weak using a brand new plug as a tester as oppose to one that's possibly been flooded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shug Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 It's the same plugs. I'll see if I can get some fresh to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam.in.head Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 silly question but are you using the correct ignition unit, the coils & distrubutor set up is the same idea on 2.0 & 2.2 but they use a different ignition module.(different number of pins & type number.) if you were on carbs before i assume you had a 2.0 set up but if you are now on injection are you using the correct 2.2 set up (with extra ignition advance box)????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shug Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 It is the correct ignition module. I should have mentioned, I've had this running before on this setup, but now it won't. Next to nothing has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Do you want "the box" shipping back? When testing spark issues I tend to use a dizzy removed from the car hooked onto the loom and spin it by hand to fire the coil (HT leads obviously not connected to dizzy in my hands) but I would not recommend this of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutty2006 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I had a 3.9 range rover v8 on EFi, kept loosing spark intermittently. Changed loads of things, everything seemed to work but after a while it was still loosing spark. Ended up changing the whole distributor as it was breaking down inside. Have you got another you can try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shug Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 Seems the coil fires just fine. I have those silly wee flashy things that go on spark plugs. Good bright flash when coil lead on it, but as soon as its going through distributor and spark leads, its a really feeble weak flash. Rotor arm and cap still look brand new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shug Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 Sprayed some carb cleaner and it fired briefly. Pretty sure its getting fuel. Certainly smell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autocrosser Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Silly suggestion really but it wouldn't be the first time it's happened, is the spring loaded centre pin still in the dizzy cap? I've seen them fall out and just leave the spring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shug Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 Yup, still there. Checked all the cap terminals and they all look ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 silly wee flashy things!!Yae had plug and lead near tae smaw cleaned area on block shug tae see whit spark yiv got,also that if area around spark plug hole is awe a grime this can effect operation an awe as lecki can jumpt tae block and nae gang doon the hole roughly speaking. Did yae check yur injectors afore fitting bi firing up intae awe container see if oni were sticking. What nick is yur battery in. A gid clean earth tae rear owe blemen fae loom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shug Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 Next to no spark. Battery is a couple months old. Showing good voltage. Tried different plugs. Double checked all earths. Another mantaless billing for me. Doubting this car will ever see a show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Have the plug leads gone crappy ? check the lead from coil to dizzy is actually clicked into the cap properly, pull back the rubber boots and make sure the metal ends are all going into position and not stopping short and making a gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 If it was mine: 1) I would wire the live to ignition module and earth direct to the battery if it is under the bonnet 2) I would borrow the setup that worked last time off me again as offered But it's not mine As Paul says if spark good at coil lead has to be dizzy cap. rotor arm, leads, plugs or engine earth have any of these things been changes since it was on carbs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shug Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 Been suggested that dust (I sanded a lot) might be causing an issue. Was hoping to get this done for billing but that aint gonna happen. Plug leads are magnecor I bought new so I'm hoping they aren't dodgy. I'll recheck the connections. I have a spare ignition module, distributor wiring and coil but none of those made a difference, which really only leaves the distributor and plug leads. Only change from carbs has been the ignition module, new coil and the wiring. Engine has an earth strap direct to battery. Module earth is bolted to body. Cant see anything amiss with rotor arm or cap but might try new ones anyway. If none of that works, I'll take you up on your offer mantadoc. Was hoping to get it running as is for billing but another year slides by. Would be nice to have it running without breaking down/catching fire/etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantasrme Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 If it fired breifly when you sprayed carb cleaner in the inlet then sounds like you could have a fuel issue not a spark issue. When you turn the ignition on do you hear the fuel pump run a little to prime the fuel system? it should but either a slightly faulty fuel pump relay of a injection wiring loom issue can cause an issue The fuel pump should prime the system when the ignition is turned on, then stop. Then when the engine is cranking it should run the pump. Then when the engine is running it should continue to run the pump. I've seen fuel pump relays that fail on one of those 3 tasks but work fine the rest of the time. I would power the fuel pump directly (either by the 2p trick if that works on the A) then try and start it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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