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Snowy

Doors gaps and sills

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Posted (edited)

Ok so I'm changing my sills on the yellow coupe. I've taken the passenger side off and prepared the new one to go on. The A and B post line up great and so does the bottom of the sill.

But the door gap looks terrible. Too high at the end of the door. Checked the other side and it looks the same before I have even cut any of the sill etc away.

Now the doors do bow out at the bottom at the end. 

Does anyone have a decent picture of their doors gaps and also had anyone been able to fix the doors sticking out at the bottom. From memory all mantas I've owned have done this to some extent. 

 

Edited by Snowy

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I know exactly what you mean. Mine was the same on the hatch with original door and with a replacement door too. The gaps would have been ok when the car was new so I was on a mission to sort them out.its as if they seem to ‘settle or swell or something .maybee due to the size and heat over the years? . Maybee due to rust between the seams.maybee they just gradually curve outwards due to years of shutting them and the pressure of the door frame seal against them ? 

We will never know,possibly a combination of a few factors but hard to get right. 

Mine had 3 issues actually .probably yours may have too.

first the lower lip of the door from front to back actually seemed to have an outward curve/swell along its entire length .i know it isn’t meant to be totally straight line but it curved more than the sill and chrome cover and more than the door on the other side did but there were signs that it had had a new skin on at some point in its life so I put that one down to bad fitting of the skin.before the car got painted it was ‘encouraged’ back into better shape with a  soft mallet !.

another door .the other side actually. fitted pretty well overall but had the rear lower corner sticking out a good 5mm in relation to the sill / rear panel corner and gave the impression the curve down the side was less than it should have been. Luckily for that one the front upper edge was also too far in so an adjustment to the hinge position brought that corner out and the corresponding rear corner in.more or less perfect. ( I seem to remember the hinge needed cutting off and re welding )hinges (both) were then adjusted to give good gaps and door alignment.

any fine tuning on that bottom corner was then done with a mallet and thin skim before painting. 

Same as can be said for any panel gaps realy. These cars were not realy bad for panel gaps compared to some cars but anything that can’t put be rectified in the obvious way ,adjustments,alignment etc needs sorting in other ways. Bead welding edges ,etc as required. 

Panel gaps are a pain in the arse and some of mine are still not perfect but were not rectified properly before paintwork and before I had the patience and skills I have now. How many of us wish we had done things differently !.,

hopefully some more answers will pop up here to compare notes !

 

 

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It doesn't help that my car has longer doors than standard so I can't just change them.

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59 minutes ago, Snowy said:

It doesn't help that my car has longer doors than standard so I can't just change them.

Longer than standard, why is that?

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12 minutes ago, IanMc said:

Longer than standard, why is that?

The car is very unique. It is quite an early car.

I bought replacement doors and when I fitted one it was about 10mm to short. 

I tried some other doors I had and they were also to short.

When measured the original doors really are longer than all the others I have.

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Wow, nice one - very interesting Snowy.

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1 minute ago, IanMc said:

Wow, nice one - very interesting Snowy.

It's not very helpful to be honest. Parts you think are going to fit just don't. 

One other oddity is the fuel filler flap is a slightly different size than standard. 

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What’s the story on this car?

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Just now, IanMc said:

What’s the story on this car?

No idea. I've even had to extend the replacement sills by cutting sections out of some old ones I had where I only used the rear section. 

I couldn't understand why they just didn't fit until I remembered the doors are longer and then it hit me that the door opening must be longer to.

I am having a hard time with this car.

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10 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

Wow that’s something I didn’t know. What year is yours? Early cav coupe ?

75

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What make of cill are you using, also just to be clear (for me anyway), is the gap ok at the front towards the a post but tapers to a much smaller gap at the b post end. Also the bottom corner of the door pertrudes out past the 1/4 but the top is ok?

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Posted (edited)

I bought my sills from retro power. They've fitted other mantas fine.

I have the gaps exactly as I want them now. The very front is a little off but it was like that before and is like that on the drivers side.

The only way I will get the door bottom right at the back is to slit the frame and weld it back up.

The front wing to door gap is perfect. The swage lines are perfect but the rear lower part of the door just sticks out a little.

 

Edited by Snowy

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Their cills are good as i've fitted those aswell, sounds like you have a plan to sort the door gap, good luck.

I have in the past put a piece of wood at the top of the door 3x2 between the i/4 panel and frame, always place a piece of card around the wood as not to damage the paint and carefully push the bottom corner of the door, if you are to paint the door you can always give it a tap with a piece of wood and hammer, then remove wood and check if the door has gone in at all, just repeat until you are happy with the lower door to 1/4 fitment.

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Posted (edited)

Would moving the top hinge out fix the bottom outer side. Its all to do with small movements in everything. Or the top hinge on the door.

Maybe your car was stretched :ph34r:  you would imagine it being built on a jig, and everything mass produced, everything is the same. 

Wonder what went wrong, remember seeing 1.1.78 stamped on my car, so its a hangover car, maybe even a drunk at work car, but it is really very good. Maybe it helped, maybe your was a 5.30 friday car? 

Or maybe your on to something, manta c stuff does not fit manta b, where they made in different factories, without checking think b and cav where russelhelm, c where antwerp :ph34r:

 

 

 

Edited by ®evo03

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8 minutes ago, ®evo03 said:

Would moving the top hinge out fix the bottom outer side. Its all to do with small movements in everything. Or the top hinge on the door.

Maybe your car was stretched :ph34r:  you would imagine it being built on a jig, and everything mass produced, everything is the same. 

Wonder what went wrong, remember seeing 1.1.78 stamped on my car, so its a hangover car, maybe even a drunk at work car, but it is really very good. Maybe it helped, maybe your was a 5.30 friday car? 

Or maybe your on to something, manta c stuff does not fit manta b, where they made in different factories, without checking think b and cav where russelhelm, c where antwerp :ph34r:

 

 

 

The door lines up perfectly everywhere except the bottom.

It lines up with the wing but the gradually comes out at the rear quarter 

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You might have a pre production car?

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The B1 was also made in Antwerp, but that is only informative.

@Snowy: Did you ever done some restoration work on the car? I am doing some on my GSI and suddenly I found 

the signs that the body had repairs that came up after stripping completely the paint. It was well hidden but I noticed this 

when I changed one of the major chassis rails.

@Evo03: You wrote seeing a date stamped in your car,  hear more of this info also in Germany but never had time to check it out.

Where do we find those stamped numbers? The whole car is stamped with numbers, on a lot of chassis and body parts. 

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18 hours ago, Ems said:

You might have a pre production car?

Or perhaps even a cut and shut job. That might explain the longer door gap.

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Posted (edited)
On 20/03/2019 at 17:00, Monaco Blue said:

Or perhaps even a cut and shut job. That might explain the longer door gap.

Wow and you think I wouldn't have noticed this.  So they noy only made the door opening wider. They made both sides the same and lengthened both doors by the same amount. While cutting and shutting they made the fuel filler a different size. Also the coupe boot lid from my old 1800 doesn't fit. I suppose they changed that at the same time.

This forum really goes dark quickly doesn't it. 

This car had only ever had a patch to the rear of each sill. 

Even the original chassis rails I fitted required work to the flanges as none of them aligned around the bulkhead. 

I put it down to being an ascona rail but everyone I've spoken to says they are the same.

Edited by Snowy

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1 hour ago, Snowy said:

This forum really goes dark quickly doesn't it. 

No idea what you are on about Snowy, it was only a thought. Perhaps I should have kept it to myself!

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Hey Snowy, sorry if we hurted your feelings. 

Your car looks to be something rare, but the 1975 date gives the info the car is made in Antwerp. 

So if you PM me your VIN I can try to find more about your car.

And yes, the ascona rails do fit on a Manta/Cavalier.

Grts, Herman.

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Ascona Rails (if they are GM originals) were shorter at the bumper end,  I fitted a new GM rail to an Ascona once and we had to cut the end 8 or so inches off and re drill the bumper mount holes.

Apart from that it fitted the same.

Very interesting to read about the differences in the shell and doors, I knew the boot lids were different, between saloon body and Coupe,  my Ascona/Cavalier 4 door Boot lid would not fit the Manta coupe.

 

 

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