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Newly built CIH, how hard should it be to locate the timing chain sprocket onto the cam end?

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Wasnt

19 hours ago, 611 said:

what is the depth in the middle? the bit where the number 9 s

Wasn't sure which side, so here's both!

IMG_20190501_172857959.thumb.jpg.48cd0b07e87c39282905d4e604b88136.jpgIMG_20190501_172924932.thumb.jpg.4863b4d5a23e1cf817e5ecb7e13b1958.jpg

 

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Hi Andy, the tensioner-guide looks stuck against the aluminium house. Could be the reason of your problem.                                                                                                                                             I would cut a small piece of it, and try then again.

IMG_20190430_1908269 (1).jpg

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The part that is moved by the oil plunger is not looking right, I have a cih cover off and in a box in my workshop, let me post a pic up later/tomorrow to compare guides.

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49 minutes ago, paulmanta said:

The part that is moved by the oil plunger is not looking right, I have a cih cover off and in a box in my workshop, let me post a pic up later/tomorrow to compare guides.

Thanks Paul, that is a massive help!

I think we might have found the issue!

If im looking at this right that is an extra 4mm that one is taking up and if the one for the adjuster is not sitting correct that could be a couple of extra mm as well.

spacer.png

1 hour ago, H-400 said:

Hi Andy, the tensioner-guide looks stuck against the aluminium house. Could be the reason of your problem.                                                                                                                                             I would cut a small piece of it, and try then again.

IMG_20190430_1908269 (1).jpg

Herman, that's what struck me when i saw your pics and also the depth of the other one, and it looks like it could be a combination of the two but mainly the top guide.

So if this is right, the whole problem has been that top guide, if only i had kept the old ones!!

I bought a new chain from piper cams, its a split link one and i tried it before i saw your pics, and the result was about the same as the old chain!

And i have also found a new GM set that has the top pulley, chain, right long guide and the lower cog, so at least i can change a few bits and then i have a chain and top cog.

Now i just need to get 2 decent ones of these guides. Proves that if you can get original GM its best!

 

Andy 

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Ok, found original GM one or the tensioner (i hope) so that just leaves me looking for a genuine top one part number 6 36 803 / 90281832

 

Anyone know somewhere i can get one?

I will now have all original: long guide, chain, bottom cog and adjuster guide.

 

Andy

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Couldn't find these until now!

IMG_20190502_175526397.thumb.jpg.177bb0f8caef30985ce762c8f40201f4.jpg

These are genuine ones but worn but do have part numbers on them. In order as in photo:

90080903

90281832

8930030

 

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3 hours ago, Exclusive Opel said:

Couldn't find these until now!

IMG_20190502_175526397.thumb.jpg.177bb0f8caef30985ce762c8f40201f4.jpg

These are genuine ones but worn but do have part numbers on them. In order as in photo:

90080903

90281832

8930030

 

Thanks for getting those for me. So of the online parts diagrams mix the middle and bottom ones up.

So i have found the top long one original, and the bottom adjusted one original. I know have 3 chain options! so im just trying to track down that middle one (90281832) seems very hard to find!! How does that original middle one measure compared to the aftermarket one that you measured? as if i cant find an original new i  think before i buy an aftermarket one i will get them to tell me that measurement so i know im not wasting my money on another duff aftermarket one!!

Andy 

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I will measure the original one I have. It Is only used for max 15.000km. 

Grts, Herman

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36 minutes ago, H-400 said:

I will measure the original one I have. It Is only used for max 15.000km. 

Grts, Herman

Thanks Herman. i really appreciate that. It look like this one little item has caused all the issues!!

If you know of an original one or an aftermarket one that is exactly the same size as original that would be great as then i can finish this engine and maybe get the car running 🙂

Andy

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1 hour ago, Exclusive Opel said:

Probably best if Herman measures his as mine is worn and very hard!

It’s a good job we know what you are referring to here....   🤣

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Well Andy,it looks that I have got to thank you on my both knees, noticed that I would have the same problem as you.

The new tensioner-guide is also too big, if I compare it with the original one the "rubber foot" has got the same dimension but the metal part is longer!

Will take pics but got to go to the body-shop to organise everything for the "homecoming" of the GSI. 

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Have a pic, I think it might help....

Genuine, GM.

 

20190503_094746.jpg

Edited by paulmanta

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Just picked up a brand new after market chain kit today and to my surprise found this:

IMG_20190503_121847173_HDR.thumb.jpg.6ef6e3062318682e09675e0cac0181ed.jpg

Wonder if they are using the original moulds? The other two aren't but are German.

 

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Thats the same as the original GM I bought 10 years ago, and the other guides (also original GM) have "WEGU" moulded in.

This is my new tensioner-guide in the cover:

23vkb3o.jpg

As you can see the same problem as Andy, but I can not test it cause my engine is still in pieces.

This is a pic of the original (left) and the aftermarket from Thomas:

sfuidu.jpg

The metal frame is longer.

Edited by H-400

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1 hour ago, Exclusive Opel said:

Just picked up a brand new after market chain kit today and to my surprise found this:

IMG_20190503_121847173_HDR.thumb.jpg.6ef6e3062318682e09675e0cac0181ed.jpg

Wonder if they are using the original moulds? The other two aren't but are German.

 

Are you sure it was aftermarket? as i have not seen any linke that in the aftermarket ones? just the original. I have found an original one and its sat at the post office waiting for me to pick it up tomorrow. Also i have noticed that the metal end does not curve round on the aftermarket as much as on the original. I think there could be two issues with theses aftermarket one, the adjustable looks longer like mine and Herman and that top guide of mine is too thick, interesting to see if Herman has an aftermarket one as well as original that he can measure? When i get my adjustable and the long guide (not that that is such an issue) im going to get them measured up and do a proper post on the blog with pics and sizes so hopefully it can be used as a reference point and maybe we can check with some of the aftermarket suppliers? I will see if Gil at Opel GT will check his once i have proper measurements.

 

Andy 

4 hours ago, H-400 said:

Well Andy,it looks that I have got to thank you on my both knees, noticed that I would have the same problem as you.

The new tensioner-guide is also too big, if I compare it with the original one the "rubber foot" has got the same dimension but the metal part is longer!

Will take pics but got to go to the body-shop to organise everything for the "homecoming" of the GSI. 

Herman, that is far more import than my guide 🙂 and very exciting!

Check the depth ion that top guide as well as it looks like mine is approx 4mm thicker which wont help at all. I have found an original so i will do some proper pics and sizes and add to the blog.

Again, this is why the club membership is so important and so cheap, without the club and everyone helping a small cheap part could have caused lots of damage to my new engine and without the club and everyone helping with pics etc.. i would have no clue and a lot of others could end up with the same issue! It would be good to find a supplier who has as accurate set of aftermarket to the original as possible so we all know where to go.

Pics of the GSI please 🙂

Andy

1 hour ago, Exclusive Opel said:

Just picked up a brand new after market chain kit today and to my surprise found this:

IMG_20190503_121847173_HDR.thumb.jpg.6ef6e3062318682e09675e0cac0181ed.jpg

Wonder if they are using the original moulds? The other two aren't but are German.

 

what is the top guide like?

 

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A pic can say more than a thousand words, there you go:

The long guide (GM)

11kjaj7.jpg

1zn7nmg.jpg

The "banana" one: (GM)

33msj7n.jpg

zmgis3.jpg

Those 2 guides are identical as the aftermarket ones of Thomas.

And yes, thanks this forum a lot of money is saved! About the GSI, gonna throw the front axle under the car together with my son.

The manager of the bodyshop gave me the keys of his place so I think the car will be home tomorrow.

 

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This is what was in the box:

IMG_20190503_155307978.thumb.jpg.7bca4fc7c8fad998b7f01f71dc783f04.jpg

Only thing missing is the two bolts but washers are there.

The other guide:

IMG_20190503_155456880.thumb.jpg.9e462cf7ba32eb7dfe202fec3ef80bcc.jpg

IMG_20190503_155504453.thumb.jpg.77b64d648a0c3b75a71280d79ba2bc31.jpg

IMG_20190503_155512500.thumb.jpg.792bfedc56f44c66013363967debe468.jpg

This is made by SWAG.

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5 hours ago, Exclusive Opel said:

This is what was in the box:

IMG_20190503_155307978.thumb.jpg.7bca4fc7c8fad998b7f01f71dc783f04.jpg

Only thing missing is the two bolts but washers are there.

The other guide:

IMG_20190503_155456880.thumb.jpg.9e462cf7ba32eb7dfe202fec3ef80bcc.jpg

IMG_20190503_155504453.thumb.jpg.77b64d648a0c3b75a71280d79ba2bc31.jpg

IMG_20190503_155512500.thumb.jpg.792bfedc56f44c66013363967debe468.jpg

This is made by SWAG.

Now the SWAG guide is the one i have and the same part number, be interesting to see the size of that and how it compares with the ones we measured? as if its more the size of mine then that i where i think im having the issues as it was much thicker than yours.

I wonder what the Febi one is like?

6 hours ago, H-400 said:

A pic can say more than a thousand words, there you go:

The long guide (GM)

11kjaj7.jpg

1zn7nmg.jpg

The "banana" one: (GM)

33msj7n.jpg

zmgis3.jpg

Those 2 guides are identical as the aftermarket ones of Thomas.

And yes, thanks this forum a lot of money is saved! About the GSI, gonna throw the front axle under the car together with my son.

The manager of the bodyshop gave me the keys of his place so I think the car will be home tomorrow.

 

This is getting confusing! It looks like yours and mine on the adjustable one dont site far enough back and could be causing a bit of an issue, but if you look at the banana one (as you say!) and mine is the same as yours but the one that exclusive opel measured is not as thick? and im sure its that one that is causing me the issue, i will know tomorrow as i collect the new GM one for the adjusted so i can try that and let you know how things fit with that in.

At least you will have the GSI for the weekend 🙂

 

Andy

 

 

IMG_20190501_172924932.thumb.jpg.4863b4d5a23e1cf817e5ecb7e13b1958.jpg

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On 01/05/2019 at 17:31, Exclusive Opel said:

Wasnt

Wasn't sure which side, so here's both!

IMG_20190501_172857959.thumb.jpg.48cd0b07e87c39282905d4e604b88136.jpgIMG_20190501_172924932.thumb.jpg.4863b4d5a23e1cf817e5ecb7e13b1958.jpg

 

This one that measures 22mm, is it a spare one? Could i borrow it to try it and see if it sorts the issue out that im getting? I would be happy to pay to have it posted. As if that solves the issue then i know what i need to get? I have the new GM one that fits the adjuster arriving tomorrow so im going to test that out and see what it like with that on.

 

Andy

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Bit of info from Gil at Opel GT Source. I sent him the 2 pics of the 22mm one and the 26mm to see what he thought.

The upper rail pictures show the 2 newer style designs.

The really thick one is what was used after 1988.
I used that type exclusively and I am very happy with the performance.
Meaning it runs the chain very quiet.
 
I agree that fitting the new sprocket is difficult. 
I have become used to that with new motor assemblies and until now, no issues.

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Ok, think things might be going in th right direction! Got the genuine guide for the tensioner and its so much better fitting than the aftermarket one. I can new fit the cam wheel with a little bit of force so if that top guide was 2mm narrower i think it would be a perfect fit.

 

Herman, look at the difference between the two and how much further that aftermarket guide sits out. there is a pencil mark to show where the aftermarket sat compared to the original one.

 

Andy

 

IMG_20190504_1321435.thumb.jpg.37103dc24be7dbf792b636e978a3abb9.jpgIMG_20190504_1321556.thumb.jpg.b47d16263a24570d2dccdb885975e171.jpg20190503_094746.thumb.jpg.caa71579fdc3b704b93bce3fa5a1e8c6.thumb.jpg.1d64135edeb794a8e55a32e3891b8bae.jpg

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Gonna fit the "old" tensioner guide back, done not that much km's and still looks ok.

Would have the same problem as you Andy, so thanks for opening this topic!

 

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53 minutes ago, H-400 said:

Gonna fit the "old" tensioner guide back, done not that much km's and still looks ok.

Would have the same problem as you Andy, so thanks for opening this topic!

 

Hey Herman

Its been a team effort! With out everyone's pictures im not sure i would have worked this out.

Im going to write this up on my blog later so its there as a reference for people.

I can now finally get my engine put back together.

 

Andy

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