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droop snoot hp firenza

gold gte coupe resto

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Posted (edited)

spent all day trying to get it running. bought new fuel pump filters from motor factors drained fuel.

put 3 gallon of high octain in tank

the car starts but then dies. had it running for around 45 seconds twice by keeping the revs high but then it dies. mostly it just dies after 2 seconds

when it was running souded great.

but i have now done everything i can to get it running and failed. it starts but dies after 2 or 3 seconds. fuel pump is running

has anyone got any ideas it seams like a fuel problem. but what do i do next

Edited by droop snoot hp firenza

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has anyone got a carb and manufold webber set up as i really need to get the car running so i can move it in and out of the garage easy.

as im not alway here and my wife sometimes needs to move it

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Posted (edited)

i have just tried getting it running again. from cold and had it running for around 1 min by keeping the revs up around 4 k.. ran ok but

it looked to be running rich exhaust sooty

then it dies 

tried it again lots of cranking and just starts then dies after 2 or 3 seconds.

pulled the plugs and they look wet and black.

im wondering if it may be over fueling

or maybe electrical . or coil .

any ideas

Edited by droop snoot hp firenza

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With the gte injection system it could be many little things, there have been many similar topics on the forum with a lot of info about how the system works and what issues can cause what symptoms.

As its been sat for so long i would start with checking the inlet pipes for splits as thats quite common, air leaks can easily cause your running symptoms. Both the large flexy pipe from the air flow meter to the inlet but also the smaller pipes off this to the idle control valve and then onto the manifold.

Its also worth checking the brake servo vacuum pipe for the same issue. However these won't be visible you'll need to spray the outside with a flammible spray (brake cleaner was the old go to but an awful lot of that is now not flammible) to see if the revs rise. The servo pipes tend to deteriorate over the years and allow air in but have no outward signs.

Then there are the obvious ones of changing the spark plugs, leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm as a weak spark from old items can also cause issues.

 

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It does sound like injectors are leaking constantly if there is that much fuel. You could also disconnect the cold start one at the back of the manifold as it may help.

 

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7 hours ago, mantasrme said:

With the gte injection system it could be many little things, there have been many similar topics on the forum with a lot of info about how the system works and what issues can cause what symptoms.

As its been sat for so long i would start with checking the inlet pipes for splits as thats quite common, air leaks can easily cause your running symptoms. Both the large flexy pipe from the air flow meter to the inlet but also the smaller pipes off this to the idle control valve and then onto the manifold.

Its also worth checking the brake servo vacuum pipe for the same issue. However these won't be visible you'll need to spray the outside with a flammible spray (brake cleaner was the old go to but an awful lot of that is now not flammible) to see if the revs rise. The servo pipes tend to deteriorate over the years and allow air in but have no outward signs.

Then there are the obvious ones of changing the spark plugs, leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm as a weak spark from old items can also cause issues.

 

 

6 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

It does sound like injectors are leaking constantly if there is that much fuel. You could also disconnect the cold start one at the back of the manifold as it may help.

 

thanks guys i will try all those things thanks for your advice

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Posted (edited)

just got a varijet carb and manifold from a 2.0 ascona also got the dizy with pionts. and mechanical fuel pump.

does snyone no if this will all bolt straight onto to my gte lump.

its only temp job just do i can move the car around.

or can i just fit the carb on.  and keep my ignition system for now.

also does anyone no if my gte down pipe will bolt straight on

eventually i want to get the injection running

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Edited by droop snoot hp firenza

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carb and manifold will physically fit  on but you will have to drill a hole in the timing chain cover for the fuel pump as the gte pump will be too high pressure. or fit a low pressure external pump.

to be honest there probably isnt much wrong with your injection system and checking it systematically should hopefully find the fault. jess above mentioned unplugging the 5th injector (or it or any of the other injectors could be leaking as she said)

also if the ecu temp sender is faulty or the wire off it would flood the engine thinking it was ice cold.

 

you can leave the distributor as electronic for now if its ok as its not integrated into the injection ecu.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, cam.in.head said:

carb and manifold will physically fit  on but you will have to drill a hole in the timing chain cover for the fuel pump as the gte pump will be too high pressure. or fit a low pressure external pump.

to be honest there probably isnt much wrong with your injection system and checking it systematically should hopefully find the fault. jess above mentioned unplugging the 5th injector (or it or any of the other injectors could be leaking as she said)

also if the ecu temp sender is faulty or the wire off it would flood the engine thinking it was ice cold.

 

you can leave the distributor as electronic for now if its ok as its not integrated into the injection ecu.

thanks for the info. great i can leave my ignition system great news

i will run through the injection system again see if i can get it sorted. if not 

i def will not be drilling my cover i will fit and old electric su mgb pump for now.

thanks again im sure i will be able to get it running now.

just a bit gutted ive already spent £100 on pump and filters and i have got no where with my injection system

does anyone no if my  gte exhaust downpipe will fit straight on to the new carb manifold

Edited by droop snoot hp firenza

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1 hour ago, cam.in.head said:

carb and manifold will physically fit  on but you will have to drill a hole in the timing chain cover for the fuel pump as the gte pump will be too high pressure. or fit a low pressure external pump.

to be honest there probably isnt much wrong with your injection system and checking it systematically should hopefully find the fault. jess above mentioned unplugging the 5th injector (or it or any of the other injectors could be leaking as she said)

also if the ecu temp sender is faulty or the wire off it would flood the engine thinking it was ice cold.

 

you can leave the distributor as electronic for now if its ok as its not integrated into the injection ecu.

Cough , he not she 🤪

1 hour ago, droop snoot hp firenza said:

thanks for the info. great i can leave my ignition system great news

i will run through the injection system again see if i can get it sorted. if not 

i def will not be drilling my cover i will fit and old electric su mgb pump for now.

thanks again im sure i will be able to get it running now.

just a bit gutted ive already spent £100 on pump and filters and i have got no where with my injection system

does anyone no if my  gte exhaust downpipe will fit straight on to the new carb manifold

The carb manifold. Will unbolt so you can keep the inj exhaust. The carb inlet manifold will work fine without the hit plate for what you need to do.

you can also keep your gte fuel pump to use with the carb, but you will need an external pressure regulator to reduce it to 7psi or so, what you can do if you just need to get it going is use a T connector just at the carb inlet , main leg between carb and fuel feed, the Bottom of the t to fuel return. as the residual pressure in the the system at this point would be enough to fill the card float chamber - but this is temp and fuel starvation will happen under load high rpm.

Try all of that before you Mess with the distributor.

 

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1 hour ago, Jessopia74 said:

Cough , he not she 🤪

The carb manifold. Will unbolt so you can keep the inj exhaust. The carb inlet manifold will work fine without the hit plate for what you need to do.

you can also keep your gte fuel pump to use with the carb, but you will need an external pressure regulator to reduce it to 7psi or so, what you can do if you just need to get it going is use a T connector just at the carb inlet , main leg between carb and fuel feed, the Bottom of the t to fuel return. as the residual pressure in the the system at this point would be enough to fill the card float chamber - but this is temp and fuel starvation will happen under load high rpm.

Try all of that before you Mess with the distributor.

 

thanks loads for that info really helped me out. top advice thanks for the reply

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21 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

Cough , he not she 🤪

sorry was thinking jessica !.   no offence .

 

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1 hour ago, cam.in.head said:

sorry was thinking jessica !.   no offence .

 

Jessica is only for Saturday nights 😂

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Posted (edited)

thanks running out of cash at the moment still trying to get it running right its costing me loads just doing that...

need it running so we can move it around .

costs to date fuel pump injectoin £100 with filters

changed leads plugs cleaned cap tried new coil

bought a second hand carb varajet and manifold.£60 fitted new su fuel pump £80  still no good

done a compression test all are superb all around 12

so bought a new webber kit  cost £400 which made it run better got it to idle good enough to pull each plug lead of while engine running. missing at low revs on piston 1 and 2 doing nothing. clears after around  2.4 k revs

also new plugs fitted tried sevral different plug leads.

3 second hand coils  1 nos coil same as one fitted to car. and 1 coil i no is good.

tried running direct from fresh fuel can even though i have flushed tank

removed original dizy

fitted second hand dizy complete with all leads and cap working  with points still same mising 1 and 2 low revs..

.tried wiring coil straight from battery still same

strobe timed it .

also tried moving dizy with engine running 

gaskets perfect on inlet.

ordered new set of points condensor cap and new coil.and leads evn though tried good used

so its doing my head in and my wallet wife not to happy spent £650 on parts still not running right

Edited by droop snoot hp firenza

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wow, that is not good news :(

Don't suppose the lobes are worn on the distributer ? did you set it with dwell ?

Would swapping to electronic ignition be of any help?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

wow, that is not good news :(

Don't suppose the lobes are worn on the distributer ? did you set it with dwell ?

Would swapping to electronic ignition be of any help?

 

hi the lobes are good points opening and closing.

timed up compression stroke on on number 1 . rotor arm pointing to number 1 lead

then followed 1342 with the leads orderd full ignition set...

strobe timed it. also tried doing it by ear with engine running incase strobe light no good.

i have anothrr full ignition set on order. but if that does not work

then looking at new engine but it makes no sence the compressions are great.

runs ok after 2k revs

 

2 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

wow, that is not good news :(

Don't suppose the lobes are worn on the distributer ? did you set it with dwell ?

Would swapping to electronic ignition be of any help?

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

The fact that it clears its throat (so to speak) around 2.4K revs says fuel starvation to me.

Any fixed choke carb will come off its idle jet around 1.5 - 2.0K revs and the main jet(s) will then take over. Have you tried increasing the idle mixture?

Can you lay your hands on a Gunsons Colourtune kit? I have one and they are worth their weight in Gold in my opinion. Basically the kit contains a see through spark plug that shows you the burn colour of the mixture through the whole rev range. Remember at school using the bunsen burners? Yellow flame = rich mixture, Light Blue = Lean, Bright/Medium Blue = just right - that's basically what you see with this kit.

If nothing else, you will be able satisfy yourself that the engine is seeing the mixture that it wants/needs to run right at low revs. Why it would only affect cylinders 1 & 2 is odd though - perhaps the ports on the inlet manifold are just profiled to ever so slightly bias cylinders 3 & 4 - no idea really!

Other random thoughts:

- have you checked the exhaust for any restrictions?

- are you sure that the inlet manifold ports to 1 & 2 are clear.

- tried any Redex down the plug holes overnight to decoke the cylinders?

Hope those ramblings help in some small way.

Good luck.

Edited by IanMc

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I hope this makes sense 

run the engine to temp with out the air filter on 

Build the revs to about 3,000 rpm using the throttle linkage under the bonnet 

When the revs are about 3,000 rpm ,place your hand (palm side on top of the crab where the air filter goes on)

When you do this it drags out any bits inside the crab, 

Do not let it cut out , play  with the throttle to keep the engine going ,if the engine cuts out can be a bit of a bugger to restart 

 

 

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thanks for all your ideas.

i have a manual choke on the new webber carb do been adjusting that. also tried messing with the idle mixture

its given me plenty to think about.

the mention of decoke has reminded me how coked up the plugs where when i first taken them out. they was real coked up.brown coke colour but lots of deposits on them

im wondering if the valves could be mega coked up.

maybe the guy who owned it drove like a nun

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if it was the same with the original electronic ignition system i would just refit that ,strobe it at cranking speed or very low idle.proper coil for electronic ignition,good leads,arm,cap and plugs and thats ignition side forgotton about.

basic compression test with starter motor to listen for obvious speed differences,low cylinders,

guage compression test you have done and was equal.

cam timing shouldnt have moved or be wrong but its easy enough to check.remove rocker cover ,turn engine to top dead centre (not front pulley mark as this will be 5 deg before )

either turn it approx 5 or so mm after front pulley mark ,this will only be approx thou( basic maths vs pulley diameter should allow you to work out a definate top dead centre mark !),or look for the timing mark indicator RIVET not pointer in bellhousing under exhaust manifold(awkward), or remove front pulley and look for vertical keyway, or as a final resort remove plug number 1 and CAREFULLY insert a pencil or similar object to lay on the top of the piston and show its highest point if you rotate engine a small amount .

once you have found tdc the 3 bolt front camshaft pulley fixings and locating dowel should be virtually straight.( they will be a small amount retarded due to some inevitable timing chain stretch but not miles out.see haynes book for picture. if its 180 deg out just turn engine one full rotation forward.

if thats all ok. spin engine on starter with ignition disconnected or turn by hand and make sure all arms are lifting by the same amount and closing ok. camshafts have been known to wear lobes away but usually only on the earlier carburettor engines .but worth checking.

if any valves were not closing properly your compression test would have shown this but not necessarily if they hadnt been opening.

make sure again there are no air leaks on the inlet side especially the flexible servo hose .

hope this brings you a step closer and i wish i lived a bit closer as would have loved to pop and help you on this .hopefully a nearby member can do so because when you find whats wrong it will most likely be something obvious.

all the best

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thanks some great advice there im no wizz on the engine side of things. as soon as im ready to takle the engine again i will follow all your steps.

im going to have a little brake from the engine as its doing my head in. spent days and a load of cash and got  no where .it starts straight up nowso thats good. so i can move it. around no problem. so im going to crack on with the paint work while we still have some warm sunny weather. ordered all the paint got a good deal. i love doing body work. so i cant wait to get stuck in.

and my wife will be a lot more happy if she sees a nice looking car in the garage. at the moment it just looks like i have spent a few thousand on a scrap rusty car so shes non to happy..

thanks again guys i will upload some photos when i have done some bodywork hoping to get the boot and rear done this weekend

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Is it an injection or a carbs.l have some injections somewhere if needed let me know 

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