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Project 3 😮 400


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Very nice. We’re they expensive? I could do with some top links to replace mine.

I hope you haven’t spoken too soon. I bought some parts from outside the EU and the import tax bill didn’t come through until two months later!

🤞you’ll get away with it.

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Started today. Good little engine I have ended up with. Original mains and big ends show hardly any wear and oil drained out of it was clean like new. No lip other than carbon on block cylinder wall,

Dropped onto its wheels and panels getting fitted. Starting to take shape now and looking forwards to getting back on to this. Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an

Been a while! C19 is slowing progress down in some ways, I am still out in Taiwan with work as the requirements for Quarantine here mean we have to do longer stints for work to make feasible, the of

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34 minutes ago, Jonathan Pounsett said:

Very nice. We’re they expensive? I could do with some top links to replace mine.

I hope you haven’t spoken too soon. I bought some parts from outside the EU and the import tax bill didn’t come through until two months later!

🤞you’ll get away with it.

£195. Not too fussed about the VAT anyway, as my business really needed these parts and I am vat reg 😋

But they are complete with new bushes too, too and lower arms so thought that was very reasonable. I use a Revolute card for foreign purchases, probably should have mentioned this before as it's a great tip. always best exchange rates when buying in anything other than £GB. Saved a fair bit with silly exchange rates over the last couple of years.  

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1 hour ago, Jonathan Pounsett said:

The black cage sets that blue off a treat. Sweet. 👌

The rest of the trim etc will be black too for that reason.

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Posted (edited)

As the project has progressed I am sure you all notice how a few changes have been made to the original plan as certain lucky items/opportunities have presented themselves.

So just to summarise the main changes on drive train.  

GS/e rear axle with LSD, with 400 oem pickup positions (replacing the currently fitted 4HA)

Getrag265 5speed gearbox, with 2 piece propshaft.

And the latest slightly longer term project,(for the project) a 2.4 / 16v Engine.

Based on the modified 24v head, with a 2.4 crank/rods. This will replace the SAAB option (will be used for another shell as still think it's a great engine option). There are now very good options for the parts to convert the 24v heads, and as it has been completed a fair few times and even more frequently regularly, good information & help is readily available. Some of the harder to find, rare as hens teeth parts, are now been reproduced (chain guides as an example), but obviously the cost to complete a finished and running engine is still very high that might put people off.
I will list part costs as I start to buy in the specific bits now, but I already have been buying a fair few parts over the last 18months like I have the 24v head for cutting, a couple of front timing chain covers, early 1.9 virgin block etc. Around £600 spent so far.

and the final piece of puzzle was getting a 2.4 lump. That definitely has proved a bit of a challenge than expected, shipping limitations due to brexit being one that has forced me to lose out in a great purchase from RoI 😬 This stands me at around £500 for the complete lump as pictured(not shown is the larger afm and filter box), but I might sell off a few parts that will help offset this cost, maybe not though 🤣. It was really only rods and crank I wanted out if this, but let's see as if the build us easier using the 2,4 block - then it will be used.

I have attached instructions that I have found on another forum and will post the links below in subsequent edits. If anyone has any other info or great ideas let me know 😎

Sone information I will just add here and it might warrant a separate build thread in the future just in the engine if consensus thinks it worthwhile, once I get well into the build and have pictures etc.

 

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

CiH 16V Project.pdf 1.9to2.4.pdf

Edited by Jessopia74
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1 hour ago, IanMc said:

I cant open the PDF's Jess.

I'll find another way to link them, thanks for letting me know Ian. Will make the admin aware as hey upload fine 🤯

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Hi Jess, the car is looking great 👍 

Your idea to run a separate 16v CiH thread is spot on. Really looking forward to seeing that!

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Posted (edited)

Started today. Good little engine I have ended up with. Original mains and big ends show hardly any wear and oil drained out of it was clean like new. No lip other than carbon on block cylinder wall, but will be stripping the 1.9 tomorrow for dummy building the crank etc into. Exterior of engine parts have suffered a little surface oxidisation, but inside the engine is excellent, no issues with any of the bolts into the Alu parts surprisingly, everything unbolted exactly as it should (for once) 😎

Sadly snapped a couple of studs removing the exhaust manifold, and manifold is also scrap I think as seems to have suffered cracking that plagues the 2.4 engine. I'll get broken studs removed before I sell the head. But main pulley crankshaft bolt, OMG it was tight, real tight. Like nightmare tight, thank goodness for the induction tool to get that bolt heated ! 🙈

Pics attached, head dummy onto the block so you see where we heading. Added a few screen grabs of the pdf instructions. Will try and get them hosted complete, but a little taster for now is included as pictures for those that might not have seen this modification before. 
 

Parts supplier is Risse, but there are a few others that make some parts, but just so you can see what is available and sone of the eye watering prices if you buy everything ( I intend to have a lot made in the U.K. locally ).

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://risse-motorsport.de/opel-motor-tuning/24v-4-zylinder/

 

 

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

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Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

Edited by Jessopia74
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Jess this is fascinating. I’ve followed the 16v page on fb but it’s a bit of a hotch potch of randomness. This looks much more like a properly thought through strategy so there’s a good chance of dealing with the fewer unforeseen issues. You’ve made a great start!

Not sure about the other guy’s use of silicone there though but maybe that’s improved over the years too.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Trooker said:

Jess this is fascinating. I’ve followed the 16v page on fb but it’s a bit of a hotch potch of randomness. This looks much more like a properly thought through strategy so there’s a good chance of dealing with the fewer unforeseen issues. You’ve made a great start!

Not sure about the other guy’s use of silicone there though but maybe that’s improved over the years too.

 

 

There are some that just weld the plates into position then machine it all back down.

But you are right, it's been a slow burner this and the intriguing builds that are out there have had my grey matter churning fir some time, they are just fragmented and I think a guide can be wrote better here. The green light for me was when the rare after market chain guides was mass produced as that has been an issue.  Some parts to be CNC or laser cut would just be too costly as one offs 

Edited by Jessopia74
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I’d seen the chain guides go for crazy money, good that someone has stepped up with manufacturing them. 
 

This is still far from a budget undertaking but you documenting the journey is invaluable. 

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7 minutes ago, Trooker said:

I’d seen the chain guides go for crazy money, good that someone has stepped up with manufacturing them. 
 

This is still far from a budget undertaking but you documenting the journey is invaluable. 

Indeed, seems you have been tracking the exact problem that was putting me off starting it! 
You are right, I am under no illusion on the cost. That would put many off, and if I am honest it is not good bhp per £. But it's the closest thing to a np A400 lump that would cost >€50K to get. 
I will be effectively selling the Silver (Dream machine) Coupe to buy an engine 🤯🤣

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23 minutes ago, Jessopia74 said:


I will be effectively selling the Silver (Dream machine) Coupe to buy an engine 🤯🤣

🤯indeed! But then you can’t drive them all at once.

Thinking it’ll be the first in the UK. 😎

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9 hours ago, Trooker said:

🤯indeed! But then you can’t drive them all at once.

Thinking it’ll be the first in the UK. 😎

Don't know mate, seems a long way off for sure. 

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Hi Jess, great project👍. Know some friends that made that "transformation" also. As the head of an original "400" the 24V head has got another bolt "pattern", look at the pic:

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

The bottom gasket is "400", you can see the hole of one of the front bolts is not on the same place as a 8V CIH. So you need to close the original hole in the engine-block and make another one. Risse sells the head gaskets also. Remember there was also something with an oil channal that needs some work or the cooling fluid will mix with the engine oil.

Succes!

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Very interesting engine work, would defo be interested in a dedicated thread.

I have a long-term A-series project (not started!), original plan was 16V XE...then 2.4 CIH....then turbo CIH...but a 16V CIH would do nicely either...Good thing ideas are free! :)

I'm a design engineer, daily 3D CAD designing, plus we have suppliers who do prototype/one-off parts for us. I wouldn't have the engine knowledge to be able to take this on, but would follow your work with interest.

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Hi All,

HUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM !!! 😬

So started stripping the 1.9 block today and hit a major snag with the block. see pics, but it's scrap 🤮 At sone time in its life the water left in the block when stood out somewhere has froze and split the block outer wall from the cylinder walls around 2&3. Not the end of the world but a shame as this engine has seen a nice rebuild around 1983, with great condition bores, oversize pistons. crank ground 0.25mm and virtually no wear, typical eh. Will salvage what I can. Early crank and rods so I believe they are forged so worth saving. So I need another early 'Opel' block, hint wink wink anyone  sos 😂

However, it did give me a good chance to make to compare the blocks and look at other undocumented issues.

Head dies bolt up onto both blocks the same, with sadly the same anomaly that is not mentioned on any of the build threads I gave read so far. Rightly as Herman noted about and given in the instructions the front left head bolt is completely different place, so the block must be drilled and tapped for this. Plenty of metal here and no issues have been noted.

But, a couple of other bolt holes do not align. I have marked them on the pics. Also the amount They are off by differs. I will ask on the FB group for guidance on this. Maybe all the head bolts are just oversized to compensate for this & I missed this info 🤔 But I do know they use studs for these builds not bolts, so maybe that us an answer. Will report back on this.

Progress today was mostly about finding the correct position for the cut and I will make this clearer on subsequent pics.  At weekend when I have a Iazy Sunday I will start a thread specific for the engine, with links to other threads etc. Until then, pics attached.

 

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Found a new bit of info that I had overlooked previously. I do remember looking at it, but since the picture was small I did not save it 🤦🏻‍♂️
 

Anyway, the two bolt holes in the head need to be milled oval. Picture attached as it shows a couple of other changes all on same pic.

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

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