2.0e poor performance

[hoobby]

2.0e le-jetronic standard set up

This car has been like this since I got it starts first turn idles smoothly Fine around town but open road lacks power

New cap,arm,leads,plugs and checked coil ok and distributor vac retard  unit is working

New air filter,fuel filter and system cleaned out including tank

Manifold gasket replaced

Compression 155 160 155 155

Ignition timing has been adjusted  while out and about made no improvement

Had the rocker cover off all rockers move evenly and sharply doesn't appear to be any obvious cam wear

Fuel pressure 36psi at idle with vac hose off (Herman confirms is correct)

Leak down test over 2 minutes 36-20psi then after 15 minutes 0psi don't know the specs on this but normally should hold at pressure ? 

So unless I've missed something

Injectors service ?

Afm ?

ECU?.

Is there a  usual suspect ?.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IanMc]

Hi Graeme,

(Being inherently pretty stupid) I tend to start with the simple things first...

Is your throttle pedal height set correctly?

Does your throttle cable move freely and correctly routed?

Is there any signs of the cable fraying?

Does the throttle butterfly move freely with the cable detached?

Sorry for the very basic suggestions, but sometimes it really is the simplest things.

Good luck!

[cam.in.head]

that engine sounds spot-on when turning and looks in good internal clean condition too !.

hard to be 100% sure but maybee the rockers could do with winding down further( the extended part of the tappet looks barely compressed ) but this should give you a rattly engine rather than a power loss .the basic setup here is JUST adjusted enough to be clearance free ( and noise free) then 1 turn down.

your compression figures of around 155 are equal enough but this depends on your guage. mine is an old gunsons which i have used the same on all my engines regularly over the years and may well be reading or calibrated differently to yours but my 2 litre (non injection) gives 180 psi and my 2.2 i gives 220 psi.

obviously your engine may be perfect but your guage could just read lower than mine.

if it is actually lower that could explain the lower power ??

the fuel pressure does seem to leak down a bit faster than expected but cant realy see this affecting power that much.could be non return valve in pump or some slight valve leakage in one or more injectors.

if you are sure that advance mechanisms are working ok( mechanical and vacuum)and that ignition timing is set correct then lets see what happens when you try a different ecu or afm.

one other thing to check which has just jumped into my head.whilst the rocker cover is off .turn the engine to TDC ( not the ignition timing mark) and make sure the timing chain is not a tooth out. the camshaft cog should idealy sit with the 2 top bolts level or slightly to the left. see haynes book for picture. it seldom sits level due to the injection head being a skimmed version of a non injection head and some timing chain stretch but it should be obvious if its a long way out.say a tooth width !

just something to check/ rule out whilst the cover is off.

in case you didnt know.sorry if you do ! but TDC is marked by the rivet of the timing pointer and marker ball in the flywheel.visible through the cast hole just behind the exhaust manifold.hard to see clearly thou. ( or work 10 deg back from ignition timing marks)

( or the old "pencil in the sparkplug hole method") !

 

[Snowy]

On 22/06/2020 at 16:10, hoobby said:

2.0e le-jetronic standard set up

This car has been like this since I got it starts first turn idles smoothly Fine around town but open road lacks power

New cap,arm,leads,plugs and checked coil ok and distributor vac retard  unit is working

New air filter,fuel filter and system cleaned out including tank

Manifold gasket replaced

Compression 155 160 155 155

Ignition timing has been adjusted  while out and about made no improvement

Had the rocker cover off all rockers move evenly and sharply doesn't appear to be any obvious cam wear

 

Fuel pressure 36psi at idle with vac hose off (Herman confirms is correct)

Leak down test over 2 minutes 36-20psi then after 15 minutes 0psi don't know the specs on this but normally should hold at pressure ? 

So unless I've missed something

Injectors service ?

Afm ?

ECU?.

Is there a  usual suspect ?.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you define lacking in power, compared to what? The GTE was quick for it's day, but not compared to most modern cars.

 

[hoobby]

On 22/06/2020 at 19:39, IanMc said:

Hi Graeme,

(Being inherently pretty stupid) I tend to start with the simple things first...

Is your throttle pedal height set correctly?

Does your throttle cable move freely and correctly routed?

Is there any signs of the cable fraying?

Does the throttle butterfly move freely with the cable detached?

Sorry for the very basic suggestions, but sometimes it really is the simplest things.

Good luck!

hi ian i know what you mean its easy to overthink a problem and miss the basic stuff but yes all is in order

23 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

that engine sounds spot-on when turning and looks in good internal clean condition too !.

hard to be 100% sure but maybee the rockers could do with winding down further( the extended part of the tappet looks barely compressed ) but this should give you a rattly engine rather than a power loss .the basic setup here is JUST adjusted enough to be clearance free ( and noise free) then 1 turn down.

your compression figures of around 155 are equal enough but this depends on your guage. mine is an old gunsons which i have used the same on all my engines regularly over the years and may well be reading or calibrated differently to yours but my 2 litre (non injection) gives 180 psi and my 2.2 i gives 220 psi.

obviously your engine may be perfect but your guage could just read lower than mine.

if it is actually lower that could explain the lower power ??

the fuel pressure does seem to leak down a bit faster than expected but cant realy see this affecting power that much.could be non return valve in pump or some slight valve leakage in one or more injectors.

if you are sure that advance mechanisms are working ok( mechanical and vacuum)and that ignition timing is set correct then lets see what happens when you try a different ecu or afm.

one other thing to check which has just jumped into my head.whilst the rocker cover is off .turn the engine to TDC ( not the ignition timing mark) and make sure the timing chain is not a tooth out. the camshaft cog should idealy sit with the 2 top bolts level or slightly to the left. see haynes book for picture. it seldom sits level due to the injection head being a skimmed version of a non injection head and some timing chain stretch but it should be obvious if its a long way out.say a tooth width !

just something to check/ rule out whilst the cover is off.

in case you didnt know.sorry if you do ! but TDC is marked by the rivet of the timing pointer and marker ball in the flywheel.visible through the cast hole just behind the exhaust manifold.hard to see clearly thou. ( or work 10 deg back from ignition timing marks)

( or the old "pencil in the sparkplug hole method") !

 

everything lines up as it should was a bit surprised to fine its on number 4 compression just assumed it would be no1 my gut feeling its a air fuel mixture issue think i will try another afm if all else fails

2 hours ago, Snowy said:

Can you define lacking in power, compared to what? The GTE was quick for it's day, but not compared to most modern cars.

 

 i have had a 1.9 and two 2.0 carb mantas in the past but this one just does not accelerate like the others engine sounds muffled like its not breathing properly will adjust the valve clearances again in case i missed something hopefully at the weekend if i get time 

[cam.in.head]

also .but unlikely. exhaust blockage ,restriction ??

[Snowy]

13 hours ago, hoobby said:

 i have had a 1.9 and two 2.0 carb mantas in the past but this one just does not accelerate like the others engine sounds muffled like its not breathing properly will adjust the valve clearances again in case i missed something hopefully at the weekend if i get time 

Be careful you're not chasing something that isn't there.

I had a 1900 a series at the same time as a GTE.  Whenever we took them out at the same time, to cars shows etc, the A series would always outpace the GTE until at least 60mph.

I always thought it was because the A series was lighter, but when I converted my first mk1 cavalier to GTE spec I left the four speed gearbox in to start. With a standard GTE engine and four speed box it also outpaced the GTE until at least 60mph.

The realisation when I did fit thr five speed that acceleration through the gears just wasnt as quick as the four speed was.

So if you can try and drive a couple of other standard GTEs to see what they are like.

[hoobby]

Cheers snowy I'll keep that in mind but this is very flat on acceleration.

before it went off the road for 13 years was the same until I reached 3000rpm+ then got a big burst of power first thought performance cam have checked it's standard but now is just same whatever the revs just flat I'm sure this engine has a lot more to give just something holding it back.

One thing that has caught my eye injector seals are all cracked and split not sure if it's the problem but it can't be helping

Plan to remove the engine and box this winter to strip ,paint and polish everything and respray the engine bay was going to replace them then.if I replace then now are they ok to be reused ?.

 

[Exclusive Opel]

I would personally fit new ones rather than reuse them just to save a few pennies after all the work you are going to do.

This has actually remined me to post this, so this seems a good time as any before I lose the bit of paper ther're written on!

I done some digging around and found the part numbers you need to look for when looking for these as they are used on other makes like Jaguar, so may make them easier to find.

Injector seals: EAC2415 (14mm x 8.5mm x 4.4mm)

Injector body clamp rubbers: EAC2414 (31mm x 21.5mm x 8mm)

[lamchop77]

Sounds like it could just be leaning out. Definitely change the injector seals and resell the mounting plates. Have you checked all the induction pipe work after the throttle body? They can split especially at the flex points. It will make it feel flat as a pancake if it is!

Hth

Chris

[hoobby]

Cheers Chris i have injector seals and gaskets just need the time to fit

Intake hose is showing signs of cracking but not spilt through yet but will need replacing soon all other hoses are good.

 

[hoobby]

Fuel rail is all out both injector mounting plates were only nipped down (finger fight) took very little effort to remove the bolts both center bolts were rusted in I suppose that what happens when you create a pool for water to collect in.i didn't feel any resistance when lifting the plates off but both gaskets were torn probably reused hopefully this is the issue.

Also found were the strong smell of petrol was coming from I always use fuel line clips not Jubilees on fuel hoses and the right size.

 

Sorry that's just bad a disaster waiting to happen 🚒.

 

[Snowy]

1 hour ago, hoobby said:

Fuel rail is all out both injector mounting plates were only nipped down (finger fight) took very little effort to remove the bolts both center bolts were rusted in I suppose that what happens when you create a pool for water to collect in.i didn't feel any resistance when lifting the plates off but both gaskets were torn probably reused hopefully this is the issue.

Also found were the strong smell of petrol was coming from I always use fuel line clips not Jubilees on fuel hoses and the right size.

 

Sorry that's just bad a disaster waiting to happen 🚒.

 

The injector boss bolts are only supposed to be hand tight. One mistake people make is to really tighten them and then the plate distorts and let's air into the system.

[cam.in.head]

yes always use proper fuel pipe clips there. the original gm ones are usually reuseable but i would imagine new ones are available.

also worthy of a mention. always use a good quality known make of hose designed for fuel injection.you dont want any leaks around there.

hopefully this will help your running issues.and if not at least you know this area is now good.

[shaunwilli]

Where was the best place to obtain these seals.Not having much luck locally.

[hoobby]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Haltegummi-Und-Gasket-Kit-Injectors-Manta-B-1-9-2-0E/133169314847?fits=Car+Make%3AOpel%7CModel%3AManta+B&hash=item1f01827c1f:g:ElUAAOSwkbdbTf3M

Full set and gaskets £30 shipped from Germany. 

[shaunwilli]

Thanks for the link.Just ordered them.

[cam.in.head]

how is it running now .any power difference ?

[hoobby]

7 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

how is it running now .any power difference ?

Been very busy with o/t and DIY but have this weekend off to Finnish the work and go for a run will let you know how it went.

[Luisetegsi]

Any luck regarding this topic?

I've got a similar issue. My 20e gte has been on a sorn for almost 8 years. I've serviced it properly and took it for a Mot . Result pass, however the engine is soo lazy and slow. Iddles very smooth but too high (1500rpm) and then around town drives sweety. However on open roads... Oh dear she struggles to keep the speed limit on the motorways. Flat out uphills 50-60mph, downhilling 80-85mph.

As a tip, emmisions test gave me 2.0% of CO and HC a bit too high.

Any ideas about what to look for?

[Jessopia74]

26 minutes ago, Luisetegsi said:

Any luck regarding this topic?

I've got a similar issue. My 20e gte has been on a sorn for almost 8 years. I've serviced it properly and took it for a Mot . Result pass, however the engine is soo lazy and slow. Iddles very smooth but too high (1500rpm) and then around town drives sweety. However on open roads... Oh dear she struggles to keep the speed limit on the motorways. Flat out uphills 50-60mph, downhilling 80-85mph.

As a tip, emmisions test gave me 2.0% of CO and HC a bit too high.

Any ideas about what to look for?

Have you checked all hoses for air leaks? Including the brake servo pipe as it sounds like you gave a bit of an air leak, so thats un metered air, meaning you will be going very lean . Did they try to adjust the co lever at the AFM at test?

[Luisetegsi]

I haven't checked any hose for leaks.

Brake servo pipe seems to be alright, however  in order to brake , it seems the servo is not helping at all, I've to depress the brake pedal too hard to be able to brake.

Nobody touched the AFM yet

Thanks for your help

[hoobby]

19 hours ago, Luisetegsi said:

Any luck regarding this topic?

I've got a similar issue. My 20e gte has been on a sorn for almost 8 years. I've serviced it properly and took it for a Mot . Result pass, however the engine is soo lazy and slow. Iddles very smooth but too high (1500rpm) and then around town drives sweety. However on open roads... Oh dear she struggles to keep the speed limit on the motorways. Flat out uphills 50-60mph, downhilling 80-85mph.

As a tip, emmisions test gave me 2.0% of CO and HC a bit too high.

Any ideas about what to look for?

Hi Luis will be giving mine a drive probably Sunday will update.

The screw on the afm is this purely for idle mixture adjustment? As someone has been in there looks of it more than once mot emissions on mine were 0.2 CO  209ppm HC. Haynes for l-jetronic 0.5 CO le-jetronic the same?

 

 

[hoobby]

21 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

Have you checked all hoses for air leaks? Including the brake servo pipe as it sounds like you gave a bit of an air leak, so thats un metered air, meaning you will be going very lean . Did they try to adjust the co lever at the AFM at test

Cheers Jess you reminded me a job that got missed  due to it wouldn't come out of the servo and thought I'll do that later....do what later? I think my antics as a young man are catching up with me hopefully this will improve things.

[Jessopia74]

Looks like it’s seen better days!  😁