Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
hoobby

2.0e poor performance

Recommended Posts

On 14/08/2020 at 21:05, hoobby said:

Cheers Jess you reminded me a job that got missed  due to it wouldn't come out of the servo and thought I'll do that later..:P..do what later? I think my antics as a young man are catching up with me hopefully this will improve things.IMG_20200814_190708.thumb.jpg.b878eace03605e9265fed86aeecb19b2.jpg

What is that? the vacuum pipe that goes from the inlet manifold to the servo? Mine seems to be alright.. but I haven´t removed it yet...

What I found was the, inlet/outlet manifold gasket was blowing a little bit due to a bolt missing .... I´ve removed both manifolds and full exhaust ( it was rotten and probably bocked) .

Waiting now for the new exhaust new bolts and new gasket to fit everything back in place.. and  see how it looks, but I don´t think that will sort out my problems

Done a compression test and all cylinders showed values between 150-160 psi..  She iddles smoothly but is just too flat under acceleration...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Luisetegsi said:

What is that? the vacuum pipe that goes from the inlet manifold to the servo? Mine seems to be alright.. but I haven´t removed it yet...

What I found was the, inlet/outlet manifold gasket was blowing a little bit due to a bolt missing .... I´ve removed both manifolds and full exhaust ( it was rotten and probably bocked) .

Waiting now for the new exhaust new bolts and new gasket to fit everything back in place.. and  see how it looks, but I don´t think that will sort out my problems

Done a compression test and all cylinders showed values between 150-160 psi..  She iddles smoothly but is just too flat under acceleration...

It is the servo vac hose mine also looked ok until I put under water blocked the engine end and blew would have done well in an aquarium I would replace it especially if it the original cotton braided type purely due to its age.  1/2" servo vac hose is available on ebay 1 meter £5.59.

It might be worth taking off the valve cover,remove plugs and spinning the engine over I filmed mine so I could play it back many times  a worn cam lobe will make the rocker arm float or move smoother instead of snapping up and down I have had a manta before that didn't go well this was the issue don't assume you have found the problem while you have time check everything.

Good luck with yours and please give an update to the result

Edited by hoobby
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, hoobby said:would have done well in an aquarium I would replace it especially if it the original cotton braided type purely due to its age.  1/2" servo vac hose is available on ebay 1 meter £5.59.
3 hours ago, hoobby said:

 would have done well in an aquarium 

A classis quote  😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, this weekend has been quite successful in terms of amount of work carried out over the manta.

I installed the full exhaust line with new gaskets, so low I can hear how smoothly the  engine goes at idle.

I've identified a misfire over 3000 rpm and under load all the time. Is not a full misfiring  but the engine doesn't not run properly.

I've checked everything, swapped the AFM for the one on my astra gte, dizzy , everything and still the same. However manta parts works on the astra without any issues.

Took the brand new spark plugs out and three of them are spot on, however one of them is black, full of carbon deposits (cylinder 2) that means either too much fuel, bad spark or lack of clean air.

After this, removed the the rocker cover and left the engine on idle to check the valves opening and closing. My surprise was when I foud the inlet valve for cylinder number 2 is hardly opening. That might explain why the engine is performing ok at low revs but does not have any power at high revs.

So what should I check? Is a matter of seized hydraulic lifter or maybe a worn lobe at the camshaft? If it a worn lobe, should not be happening across the hole part including the other cylinders? Any  ideas about how to proceed?

Cheers guys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Luisetegsi said:

Right, this weekend has been quite successful in terms of amount of work carried out over the manta.

I installed the full exhaust line with new gaskets, so low I can hear how smoothly the  engine goes at idle.

I've identified a misfire over 3000 rpm and under load all the time. Is not a full misfiring  but the engine doesn't not run properly.

I've checked everything, swapped the AFM for the one on my astra gte, dizzy , everything and still the same. However manta parts works on the astra without any issues.

Took the brand new spark plugs out and three of them are spot on, however one of them is black, full of carbon deposits (cylinder 2) that means either too much fuel, bad spark or lack of clean air.

After this, removed the the rocker cover and left the engine on idle to check the valves opening and closing. My surprise was when I foud the inlet valve for cylinder number 2 is hardly opening. That might explain why the engine is performing ok at low revs but does not have any power at high revs.

So what should I check? Is a matter of seized hydraulic lifter or maybe a worn lobe at the camshaft? If it a worn lobe, should not be happening across the hole part including the other cylinders? Any  ideas about how to proceed?

Cheers guys

If seized follower it would have a big gap and rattle, if it’s not got either of those and lift is still poor then it does sound like a lobe issue. Usually one or two of them would show very high wear but it is not uncommon to just have the one. It would need a dial gauge on each to check the total lift (off the rocker end is fine).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes the nuts loosen a bit, cause they don't have enough grip on the stud. You can compare with the other valves/rockers how far the nut is on the stud. And ofcourse check the camshaft for any wear on the lobes. If the camshaft looks ok make the basic setting of the hydraulic tappet, cilinder on his dead point end compression and turn the screw gently till there is no play anymore between the rocker & tappet. If the screw goes too easy you can fit it in a vise and give it some tension and try again. When the engine runs you'v got to set the hyd. tappet by unscrewing the nut till you hear a clacking nois, turn again till the noise dissapears and than gently turning the nut 360°. Look at this:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

If seized follower it would have a big gap and rattle, if it’s not got either of those and lift is still poor then it does sound like a lobe issue. Usually one or two of them would show very high wear but it is not uncommon to just have the one. It would need a dial gauge on each to check the total lift (off the rocker end is fine).

I will measure at some point this week the total lift for that valve .

Worst case scenario, worn lobe , how difficult is to remove the camshaft ? Can it be done with the head in place?

Thank you very much

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Luisetegsi said:

I will measure at some point this week the total lift for that valve .

Worst case scenario, worn lobe , how difficult is to remove the camshaft ? Can it be done with the head in place?

Thank you very much

If your cam is on its way out, that would definitely be a big issue with engine power, so you may have nailed it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Jessopia74 said:

If your cam is on its way out, that would definitely be a big issue with engine power, so you may have nailed it

Looks like it ... But I wish it was something else  a little bit less expensive... Hahaa

5 hours ago, H-400 said:

Sometimes the nuts loosen a bit, cause they don't have enough grip on the stud. You can compare with the other valves/rockers how far the nut is on the stud. And ofcourse check the camshaft for any wear on the lobes. If the camshaft looks ok make the basic setting of the hydraulic tappet, cilinder on his dead point end compression and turn the screw gently till there is no play anymore between the rocker & tappet. If the screw goes too easy you can fit it in a vise and give it some tension and try again. When the engine runs you'v got to set the hyd. tappet by unscrewing the nut till you hear a clacking nois, turn again till the noise dissapears and than gently turning the nut 360°. Look at this:

 

 

Hi, I'll follow your instructions in order to check if the lobe is definitely worn.

So following your advice, for valve clearance andjusment with hydraulic tapped is :

For instance with the engine stopped and piston  at the top with both valves closed  remove all the "play" between rocket and valve.

Then with the engine running on iddle  follow the same process showed on the video. Is that correct?

How can I visually inspect the camshaft as it's inside of the head? Is not like on ohc engines where the camshaft is over the head.

How difficult to remove it is?

Thanks 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You'v got it, to check the camshaft just take the rocker away and pull the tappet out and you can check your camshaft with a small flashlight. You can check the lobe-lift with a micro-meter if you are not sure. When the camshaft is worn that's another story: The head has to come off, because the camshaft-sprocket blocks the way out. I fit in the timing-chain a Mercedes chain lock so I can open the chain and lift the sprocket, but you won't find that... 

If you want to set the hydraulic tappets you'v got to cover the timing chain with a piece of bended metal, the engine-oil will fly everywhere. You can see on the video I used an old rocker cover with an opening on the top.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dont worry.ive just watched your original video. camshaft is fine .followers are all moving up and down by the same amount but as i noted it looks like they needed the arms adjusting. double check your adjustments and follower movement again but unless you have worn out the cam since that video all should be well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cam.in.head said:

dont worry.ive just watched your original video. camshaft is fine .followers are all moving up and down by the same amount but as i noted it looks like they needed the arms adjusting. double check your adjustments and follower movement again but unless you have worn out the cam since that video all should be well

that would be my engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

dont worry.ive just watched your original video. camshaft is fine .followers are all moving up and down by the same amount but as i noted it looks like they needed the arms adjusting. double check your adjustments and follower movement again but unless you have worn out the cam since that video all should be well

That video is not from my car. Mine definitely is not opening the inlet valve  for cylinder 2 more than 3mm ish.

I've removed today two inlet  rockers  and hydraulic tappets, please have a look to the picture attached. You can se how concave is the bottom of one of them. That's the one with the issue. I've checked the lobe and is worn too. Finally I've inspected them all and seems like this is the only one damaged. Shame but my camshaft has to be replaced at some point.

I've fitted a new hydraulic lifter in that position and performance has improved significantly, at least now I'm able to keep at the speed limit all the time at the motorway even uphilling!

Thinking now on removing the cams, engine head, looking for parts...  Will do at some point over the loooong winter.

Regards

 

IMG_20200824_184201.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It has had oil starvation at some point that initiated that. But at least you know know where the performance has gone. I would say that replacing the cam and followers will really be noticeable to performance.

 

well done 👍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, hoobby said:

that would be my engine.

ah yes i see now. thats what happens when you just dive straight in and read the last answer. !

my mistake. 

in that case " disregard my last transmission ! "

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Luis, now when your rockercover is not on your head: Check if you'v got an oil raiser tube fitted in the head, you can find it on the back of your head. Picture for info:

sKVkTOb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 25/08/2020 at 18:05, H-400 said:

Hi Luis, now when your rockercover is not on your head: Check if you'v got an oil raiser tube fitted in the head, you can find it on the back of your head. Picture for info:

sKVkTOb.jpg

Hi

This how that pipe looks inside of my engine head. Seems like it had better times . Looks like someone has ripped it apart. I think this head has been already messed out by someone in the past. Look at the pictures including the camshaft bolts

IMG_20200828_174421.jpg

IMG_20200828_175241.jpg

Found  this small wire-spring lying around between the rockers, Does anyone know where it could came from?

 

Thanks guys

IMG_20200828_174434.jpg

Edited by Luisetegsi
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Spring is from an oil seal, obviously it was butchered to get out and a terrible  job of it too 🤦🏻‍♂️

Now it’s been chewed up by something, cam lobes or timing chain 🤯

edit

thinking a bit more on thus, you might need to check front crank oil seal mate

Edited by Jessopia74

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How is your car performing now Graeme, is it better?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, IanMc said:

How is your car performing now Graeme, is it better?

 car is all Finnished just waiting for the weather to calm down as I have to remove a 6x6 fence panel (wind) to get it out and promised myself no more wet miles if I can avoid it.

IMG_20200828_175241.thumb.jpg.02feb7a8ef433eee3b52814ef16313e9.jpg.2de3cd3a9f0bb0004065418a6c8878bb.jpg

This sort of thing I always find worrying couldn't be bothered to use the proper tool and a non caring attitude to the standard of work 🐒 it leaves the thought in my mind what else has been done to this standard?.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

took the car to work and no improvement i do have a spare afm which i will fit for the return journey and will reset idle 1200 rpm and ignition timing when i get home.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at your photo above got me thinking if your timing is set up correctly. When the dowel pin on the top pully is at the top (12 o'clock), the No.4 piston is at TDC but when at the bottom (6 o'clock), No.1 piston is at the top. I wonder if the timing/distributor is 180 deg out (or would it even run, I forget!). I think there is a mark on the distributor to show when No.1 is firing/TDC. The bottom timing chain gear will have it's keyway at the 12 o'clock position.

Apologies if this is teaching you to suck eggs, but it does catch people out, me included!

It's been a while since I've had to re-time one of these engines so maybe someone can confirm the above is correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Exclusive Opel said:

Looking at your photo above got me thinking if your timing is set up correctly. When the dowel pin on the top pully is at the top (12 o'clock), the No.4 piston is at TDC but when at the bottom (6 o'clock), No.1 piston is at the top. I wonder if the timing/distributor is 180 deg out (or would it even run, I forget!). I think there is a mark on the distributor to show when No.1 is firing/TDC. The bottom timing chain gear will have it's keyway at the 12 o'clock position.

Apologies if this is teaching you to suck eggs, but it does catch people out, me included!

It's been a while since I've had to re-time one of these engines so maybe someone can confirm the above is correct.

Only if camshaft is 180deg out too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I discovered that the ignition control module on the heat sink under the coil can work well enough to run but play up under strain. 
If you do replace it, please note that you need a thin layer of proper heat-sink compound too. If the module is original, the heat-sink compound is probably more like limescale by this time & the lack of cooling is cooking the module. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fitted the afm I got from Danny and still the same fine on 1/4 throttle short shifting round town nice and nippy but floor it and it doesn't accelerate any better than when on 1/4 throttle.

On 01/09/2020 at 00:27, Trooker said:

I discovered that the ignition control module on the heat sink under the coil can work well enough to run but play up under strain. 
If you do replace it, please note that you need a thin layer of proper heat-sink compound too. If the module is original, the heat-sink compound is probably more like limescale by this time & the lack of cooling is cooking the module. 

The module is the original Bosch unit the heat sink compound was like chalk and I can see the metal plate on the bottom is discoloured and corroded so probably got too hot a few times have ordered a new one and compound.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...