Bare Metal Respray

[Jonathan Pounsett]

I went crazy and stripped my Manta B back to bare metal but now I need a professional to respray it.

I found quite a few local body shops capable of undertaking the work but the range of price and what is and isn't included is vast. 

Does anyone have car painting specification that I could use as an aid memoir when comparing prices and ultimately for the basis of an agreement?

Thanks.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Jonathan Pounsett

[Jessopia74]

Around £4k for a pro job is what I found, could find a couple that was offering £2K but not in a proper booth. 
I used to know an old boy that used to paint in effectively a sged, but his paint was amazing after he spent 2days post paint detailing. 
 

So you are right, it does vary a lot. What aI will say is try and find a painter that's passion is restorations as they will take more care/ time on the prep , and preparation is pretty much everything.

[®evo03]

The way i work is try to cut costs and mainly time for the professional,  i finish, inner car, boot, door shuts, posts, inner bonnet, bootlid, inner doors. It basicially leaves them with outside only. Therefore cuts their times and costs, its all in the process they use, they spray the insides, etc then have to mask it off, which takes time, if the car is one pass, three coats, its alot easier for them, been working this way for years.

Ive all the equipment, and a nephew going through, nearly qualified painter.

Ive two projects on the go at the minute, so the above is the way im going, my nephew will be qualified by then, so will either give it to him to do, or get him to give me a hand, as he works in the only spray shop that i would go to. 

If they take a bare shell in primers its 5k, ive seen results and for 5k, im very fussy 5k fussy........

I know i can do it, im considering buying the full materials needed, cups, mixing pots, etc to get mixing side right.

Im also thinking of converting a garage to a temporary spray booth, polythene, strip lights, outlet fan.

Another tip is buy you own paint, consult with your sprayer, i can buy it from the supplier cheaper than any sprayer will charge.

I think, paint, materials, booth, and finish will cost approx £3-400. That includes finishing mops, cutters, and polishes, masking materials, paint materials, mixers, paint, im lucky its not metallic. 

If you look at any paint, post paint is where the magic happens, wet sanding, flattering, mopping, buffing and final polish.

Ever look at a new! Factory paint bmw, orange peel city! 

The way your manta sits, my guys would be 4.5k

Edited November 1, 2020 by ®evo03

[611]

I went on a college course in the evenings to learn the basics, painted mine in the garage in the summer when it was hot, did the whole car apart from the cabin inner and it came out pretty good, only had 2 runs and the paint looked good for about 10 years, needs a paint again and going on those cots to get it done im going to do it myself again.

 

If you have a garage you can spend the winter doing all the prep work and getting it spot on and then paint it in the spring, looks like we will have plenty of time at home to watch youtube videos and learn all the skills!!

Buy the stuff and some cheap paint and practice on an old door first.

 

The are a couple of good build threads on here where people have undertaken their own spray work and its come out pretty damn good!!

 

Andy

[Jonathan Pounsett]

Thanks for your replies and advice guys.

I had received prices as low as £1,700 by a body shop that normally does accident repairs but I don’t believe they were aware of exactly how much work the full respray would entail. (And how fussy I’m going to be)
 

The problem with discussing the job with too many shops is you start to get conflicting information. After talking with them for awhile you also get a good feel for who knows what they’re talking about and who is talking BS.
 

I found a guy who normally restores top end classic cars - he usually has four cars in his shop at any one time but luckily for me he has a slot and seems quite keen to take my car as soon as I finalise my exact requirements and agree the price.
 

He is at the top end at £5K so I’m trying to establish exactly what should be included for that price. Should that include the cabin and inside the boot for example and would you get the old underseal stripped from the wheel arches and underside, resprayed and resealed within that price?

Am I pushing my luck to expect to have the side window reveals, front air ducts and front panel behind the lights and indicators detailed in black?

[Mike.]

Hi Jonathan,

have a look at Mikes Manta in your projects section, I had a professional body shop do a bare metal respray on my Manta and it’s all documented there what was done. I removed all under seal from the inner wheel arches, floor pans, chassis rails etc when the Manta was on a rollover jig, I prepped all wings, doors, bonnet and boot over weekends, the bodyshop stripped the shell inside and out. They Red leaded the whole shell inside and out, sealed with a 2k primer, then high build spray filled the whole car, panels as well then guide coat, blocking and sanding then final 2k colour coats of polar white, a lot of hours went into the panel prep and paint, but worth the effort.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Mike.

[Jonathan Pounsett]

Thanks Mike - I’ll take a look now.

[Jonathan Pounsett]

WOW! “Mikes Manta” what a thorough restoration. I can’t think of anything that was overlooked. 
 

It’s been really useful helping me understand what I should be expecting with my own project. It’s very difficult explaining to someone that you don’t want any corners cut but that you are still working to a budget that can’t be exceeded. 
 

Thanks again Mike for posting a well photographed and documented build. ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ 

[®evo03]

Something told me your car was an exclusive, maybe monacco blue on pillar and then spotted sunroof, then its a two slot grill, with early single hole wings, so its either chrome or black plastic bumpers, but it has a hole for a ariel in the wing,  and a early 2 slot wiper tray section, confused! Didnt know bs have factory sunroof until recently.

What kills me about paint is whether its £500 or 5k, there is always a risk of something surfacing up again from beneath. 

Think the basics is try to do all the hard work yourself, underseal removal, primering, rush chemical treatment, cavity protection, to try a drive that final bill down. 

What condition is the sunroof roof area like? 

Edited November 2, 2020 by ®evo03

[Jessopia74]

7 minutes ago, ®evo03 said:

What kills me about paint is whether its £500 or 5k, there is always a risk of something surfacing up again from beneath. 

Only way to be sure about this is dipping, and that opens up a whole new can of worms 🙈

[®evo03]

Dipping has its issues too, air locks and it wont penetrate a double seam. Proven here yrs ago with an experienced members car

Tried glass blasting recently, again issues. 

Regardless of costs, ive looked at 5k, 6k, and 10k paint finishes, all with flaws, they all have em, if you look hard enough. 

[Jessopia74]

3 minutes ago, ®evo03 said:

Dipping has its issues too, air locks and it wont penetrate a double seam. Proven here yrs ago with an experienced members car

Tried glass blasting recently, again issues. 

Regardless of costs, ive looked at 5k, 6k, and 10k paint finishes, all with flaws, they all have em, if you look hard enough. 

Well, not all dipping companies are equal, but main issues are that it takes a fair while to stop eating metal, amongst others. But it sure does highlight where the rot was. My (formally) black coupe is definitely better for been dipped, but it has to sit for a while longer yet to be sure 🤦🏻‍♂️
 

As for relative costs of painting. I don't like to generalise as someone could pay £10k for effectively a £2k job. There are some really great painters out there, Group on FB 'Old School Paint Sprayers' has some great guys who will offer free advice on how to get the best you can regardless of your experience and fix those inevitable issues.

[Jonathan Pounsett]

1 hour ago, ®evo03 said:

Something told me your car was an exclusive, maybe monacco blue on pillar and then spotted sunroof, then its a two slot grill, with early single hole wings, so its either chrome or black plastic bumpers, but it has a hole for a ariel in the wing,  and a early 2 slot wiper tray section, confused! Didnt know bs have factory sunroof until recently.

What kills me about paint is whether its £500 or 5k, there is always a risk of something surfacing up again from beneath. 

Think the basics is try to do all the hard work yourself, underseal removal, primering, rush chemical treatment, cavity protection, to try a drive that final bill down. 

What condition is the sunroof roof area like? 

Are you a part time detective? 
 

It’s a 1980 with an aftermarket sunroof.

[Jonathan Pounsett]

I did consider dipping and blasting but decided against both. Doing it yourself in a controlled manner identifies the defects without the danger of an over zealous blaster obliterating the shell. 
 

I spent last summer on my back needle gunning the whole underside but wish I hadn’t bothered as the original protection was really sound and stuck like..... well you know what.

I’ve found the right guy to do the work now I just need to make sure I mention all the things that need bringing to his attention. 

[Jessopia74]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Pounsett said:

I did consider dipping and blasting but decided against both. Doing it yourself in a controlled manner identifies the defects without the danger of an over zealous blaster obliterating the shell. 
 

I spent last summer on my back needle gunning the whole underside but wish I hadn’t bothered as the original protection was really sound and stuck like..... well you know what.

I’ve found the right guy to do the work now I just need to make sure I mention all the things that need bringing to his attention. 

Indeed, dipping is not suitable for every shell. In fact it us fairy vicious with corroded metal that is somewhat corroded, could be saved with and would be weldable in most cases.

But great to hear you found someone, that us a great step forwards. I find there is always a compromise, time (delays) is something I allow - not shoddy work, once a figure is agreed. 

[®evo03]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Pounsett said:

It’s a 1980 with an aftermarket sunroof.

Gutted, i missed the 5 studs, tbh if i had of seen em would have thought it was a pre production 400, it isnt 2.4 16v is it?. Its a berlinetta, nice one!

Glad you found someone for the work, i would direct them to stop after welding and let you inspect before continuing, as these could be problem areas in the future, just so you are certain, it not made from cereal packages, old mobile phones, chicken wire, concrete, paper mache, or face masks.

Would do no harm photographing these areas.

As for knowing my mantas, yeh, been around, i know some stuff.

Hope you are keepin the colour, i like this combo, 

[Jonathan Pounsett]

The welding was Phase 1 and the subject of an earlier post regarding ruined rear arches.

[H-400]

Nice work Jonathan, about the 5-studs: Are you going for the "400" look?

[Jonathan Pounsett]

Thanks Herman.

No. It’s been in my family for nearly 40 years so I’m keeping the car looking exactly as it is.

[®evo03]

Jonatha n, are they front calipers on rhe rear, any idea what the rest of the setup is, disks? Its a manta axle right? With converted half shafts. 

Like the 5 stud conversion, unique to a standardish looking car, great welding, you know the stardard jack wont fit the front jacking point tubes, tge tubes are the wrong size, never looked but maybe could be drilled out, if enought beef is left on the tube walls. 

B's believe it or not are better shelks and easier to weld. 

Great work, blast on! 

[Jonathan Pounsett]

Rear axle is from a Commodore GS/E lsd with standard brake calipers. The front is Commodore hubs with Monza discs and 7 Series calipers.

I read a post the other day about the jacking points - luckily only one needed changing the other was sound. Carrying 2 jacks is an option (I don’t even own 1 at the moment!). 

[Jessopia74]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Pounsett said:

Rear axle is from a Commodore GS/E lsd with standard brake calipers. The front is Commodore hubs with Monza discs and 7 Series calipers.

I read a post the other day about the jacking points - luckily only one needed changing the other was sound. Carrying 2 jacks is an option (I don’t even own 1 at the moment!). 

Interesting car  mate. All the bits to go towards a 400 replica, but kept as a B 👍

[®evo03]

19 hours ago, Jonathan Pounsett said:

Rear axle is from a Commodore GS/E lsd with standard brake calipers. The front is Commodore hubs with Monza discs and 7 Series calipers.

I read a post the other day about the jacking points - luckily only one needed changing the other was sound. Carrying 2 jacks is an option (I don’t even own 1 at the moment!). 

Thought commodore had trailing arms similar to a 400? No torque tube? I can see manta spring seats, and tie bars? Confused

7 series bmw?

If about to fit one also, thinking of cut the old tube of the old one, cutting the new tube off, back to one jack fits all, saying that, ive never used a manta jack.

[cam.in.head]

to be honest its probably safer and easier just to carry a small scissor jack than the original type 

[Jonathan Pounsett]

1 hour ago, ®evo03 said:

Thought commodore had trailing arms similar to a 400? No torque tube? I can see manta spring seats, and tie bars? Confused

7 series bmw?

If about to fit one also, thinking of cut the old tube of the old one, cutting the new tube off, back to one jack fits all, saying that, ive never used a manta jack.

I bolted the Manta axle into a jig to ensure the lower spring cups and panhard rod were in the correct place then cut away the axle. I sat the Commodore axle into the Manta cups and welded it into position.

I did something similar with the top links, welding new mounts into the Manta floor, retaining the original Commodore centres and reused the anti-roll bar.

The bracket that would normally support the front of the torque tube was modified to support a new knuckle and bearing supporting a special prop shaft.

The geometry was tricky but I’ve replicated the ride height and got the same suspension travel so I’m happy overall. Threading the over-axle exhaust tubes was also problematic as space is tight.