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Getrag 240 problems


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Gear selection was absolutely fine before it went off road for 13 years (engine and box removed for welding) could put in first and change gears using finger and thumb i changed the oil before it went back on the road

Clutch bites at a  good height but very hard to get into any gear when stationary but ok ish when moving just got to be done slowly getrag sports box is term I've heard...what sport is that lawn bowling ?

first thought wrong grade oil this is what I put in 

IMG_20210122_063536.thumb.jpg.1509662f70a0ff2ed2466efeda80a278.jpg

 

Second thought problem with the clutch not fully disengaging maybe something has broken in there?

Third some how gearbox gave up waiting 13 years and died of boredom 

Was going to drop the box when my fingers won't get frozen off to replace the input (worn) and output bearings  and refit that oil catch pipe but I fear their is far more wrong with it  just don't understand why it now feels so bad unless oil is wrong?.

Your thoughts and ideas are welcome.

 

 

Edited by hoobby
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The oil is the right one, is also used in the 265 getrag. Did you check the setting of the clutch lever? From the engine block till the back of the gearbox lever it must be 109mm or when you use a 9 inch clutch 120mm:

WpHqeOL.jpg

As you can see i'v got a 9 inch. To set it you will find on the other side of the clutch house a nut (19mm?) that secures a square headed bolt. If that is set you can do the setting of the height of the clutch pedal by turning the nuts on the clutch cable. Usually the pedal stands higher than the brake pedal.

Maybe the synchro rings are stucked on the gears cause of some rust, and the gearbox needs some miles to "wake up". The synchrorings and gears fit on eachother on a cone but they are not allowed to get stucked.

Succes!

 

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Does it crunch a bit going into gear? 
 

it’s possible that a spring has broken on the friction plate. I had a similar issue with my discovery. Would go into gear fine with the engine off, engine running it would crunch. Driving, going up the gears was fine but coming down it would crunch, because it was matching the revs. Pulled the box out thinking the clutch arm had failed not allowing 100% travel. Nothing wrong with it. Replaced the release bearing, arm, and slave and it was still the same. Took the box out again for another look and found one spring in the friction plate broken. That’s it. Worth a look incase it’s gone weak over those 13 years and snapped when you’ve first used it. You can’t hear or feel it break. 

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I'd try a different oil. While that oil is the same part number as the original and no doubt meets the same test criteria it is much much thinner than the original oil physically (they don't mention a viscosity on the bottle). I put it in a gearbox of a customers car and found it was knotchy so swapped for a quality semi sythetic of the right grade, the box went back to being smooth again. Its not guarenteed thats the issue with yours, but its the simpliest/cheapest thing to try anyway.

I think with a bit of wear inside the box too thin an oil shows the wear as knotchy

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do the gears select ok when the engine is off ?

if so then that does suggest that the clutch plate is indeed turning / gripping very slightly when the engine is running.

this could be many things 

dry pilot bearing in end of crank as jess said causing shaft to turn

dirty,rusty or otherwise sticky splines causing the disc to stay pressed against the flywheel

faulty clutch disc/plate ( warped,bent,lining lifting ,spring ?)

faulty pressure plate/ cover ( unlikely)

adjustment issue. ( adjust release lever only and THEN cable IF needs be)

if its just the splines it may sort itself out with use .likewise if theres any rust on the flywheel or cover it should sort itself out.

 

with the car securely supported or idealy up on a ramp you may be able to see into the clutch with the big grommet removed and confirm that the disc is indeed spining when the clutch is down but BE VERY CAREFULL !

 

and obvoiusly as mentioned it could be the oil. if the new oil is thinner the input shaft may be able to tun more freely ,hence before it would stay still ? ? maybee ? 

Edited by cam.in.head
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7 hours ago, H-400 said:

Did you check the setting of the clutch lever?

 no I didn't just assumed it would be where it was before but will check 

6 hours ago, mantasrme said:

I'd try a different oil.

The oil that came out was much thicker by the look and smell would say something like ep90 so will drain and refill if adjustment doesn't sort it

7 hours ago, Sutty2006 said:

Does it crunch a bit going into gear? 

Yes I have caught the gears a couple of times going down the gears has to be done slowly  and I'm pretty sure it went into gear ok when  I moved it in the garden a couple of times I would have noticed and rectified.

6 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

Could be dry spigot bearing causing lot of drag on input shaft

 

5 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

do the gears select ok when the engine is off ?

if so then that does suggest that the clutch plate is indeed turning / gripping very slightly when the engine is running.

this could be many things 

dry pilot bearing in end of crank as jess said causing shaft to turn

dirty,rusty or otherwise sticky splines causing the disc to stay pressed against the flywheel

faulty clutch disc/plate ( warped,bent,lining lifting ,spring ?)

faulty pressure plate/ cover ( unlikely)

adjustment issue. ( adjust release lever only and THEN cable IF needs be)

if its just the splines it may sort itself out with use .likewise if theres any rust on the flywheel or cover it should sort itself out.

 

with the car securely supported or idealy up on a ramp you may be able to see into the clutch with the big grommet removed and confirm that the disc is indeed spining when the clutch is down but BE VERY CAREFULL !

 

and obvoiusly as mentioned it could be the oil. if the new oil is thinner the input shaft may be able to tun more freely ,hence before it would stay still ? ? maybee ? 

A clutch issue was my gut feeling gear selection is easy with engine off finger and thumb also getting noticeable vibration at idle dash is humming and buzzing can also feel it on the steering wheel so I would guess probably one of the torsion springs on the friction disc has broken and come away this would make the flywheel to become unbalanced hence vibration besides three road springs managed to snap during the 13 years it stood.

Yet again thanks everyone will still check the adjustment and change oil to eliminate the easy stuff and as I was going to drop the box to sort it's other issues will check Clutch/plate and spigot bearing while I'm in there but won't be until spring/ summer too wet too cold and too old to roll around outside but will get back with my findings.

Oh as a closing note 

8 hours ago, H-400 said:

i'v got a 9 inch

Herman that's far too much information :D

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Had difficulty getting gears on one of my mantas 

Replaced the gear oil ( what we used in work) 

100% better, it’s the cheapest easy way to check if the box needs to come out

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I used to use ep90 in the 240 box without issue so Chuck a litre of that in and it might make a difference. Good luck! These gearboxes are fairly easy to get out at least! 

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