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Independent Valuation Required


jbk5x
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I have just had my insurance renewal with agreed value through from Chris Knott for my 1988 Manta GSi Coupe. As well as the usual declaration on mileage and the requirement to provide photographs (they ask for these every two years) they have asked for an independent valuation. It was previously insured with an agreed value of £9500 which I feel is now a bit low and also previously did not require an independent valuation unless more than £10000 but must of changed this. Does OMOC have the faculty to do independent valuations for their members? I live in the far north mainland of Scotland and hope this will not be prohibitive.

Thanks John

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15 hours ago, jbk5x said:

I have just had my insurance renewal with agreed value through from Chris Knott for my 1988 Manta GSi Coupe. As well as the usual declaration on mileage and the requirement to provide photographs (they ask for these every two years) they have asked for an independent valuation. It was previously insured with an agreed value of £9500 which I feel is now a bit low and also previously did not require an independent valuation unless more than £10000 but must of changed this. Does OMOC have the faculty to do independent valuations for their members? I live in the far north mainland of Scotland and hope this will not be prohibitive.

Thanks John

As @Jessopia74 has said, its been previously discussed a few times but i don't know anyone who has had theirs done by the club, i sent in an email for mine weeks ago but nothing back 😞   

I think I'm going to have to end up paying for an independent one as there seems no help from the club on this issue, sadly as mine is up for renewal later in May.

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30 minutes ago, 611 said:

As @Jessopia74 has said, its been previously discussed a few times but i don't know anyone who has had theirs done by the club, i sent in an email for mine weeks ago but nothing back 😞   

I think I'm going to have to end up paying for an independent one as there seems no help from the club on this issue, sadly as mine is up for renewal later in May.

That’s disappointing, as how much more expertise can you get than from the club!  They can only look at condition like Webuyanyshed would then compare the current market conditions from past sales. All we need from the club is a statement of estimated value based on photographic evidence on a letterhead.

Surely that can’t be hard? 

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1 hour ago, Jessopia74 said:

That’s disappointing, as how much more expertise can you get than from the club!  They can only look at condition like Webuyanyshed would then compare the current market conditions from past sales. All we need from the club is a statement of estimated value based on photographic evidence on a letterhead.

Surely that can’t be hard? 

You would think not, but it seems like no one seems to deal with that side of things?? I would even mind if they wanted a small payment that went to the club in exchange for the letter. Surley these days it could even be a service that they supplied at a small cost as there will be a lot of people wanting something like this these day.

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1 hour ago, 611 said:

You would think not, but it seems like no one seems to deal with that side of things?? I would even mind if they wanted a small payment that went to the club in exchange for the letter. Surley these days it could even be a service that they supplied at a small cost as there will be a lot of people wanting something like this these day.

Just needs a sub committee as such. Say 3 members on a WhatsApp group to agree to value and send the letter. It’s no more time consuming than looking at a FB post.

 

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1 hour ago, Danny D114BCW said:

I have done valuations for club members but unless you know the car or can view it in person it’s risky putting a value on pictures alone. 

True, but one of the main reasons i setup the blog is so you can see exactly what has been done to the car!!

A bit of an update that might help out @jbk5x and others. My insurance is up for renewal next month and its with footman James, so i called and asked what the process was for agreed value with them. The girl asked what i thought it was worth and i said 25'000 and she said yet that's fine! and i asked what i needed to do to get them to check the car is worth that and she said not much, its under our threshold where we would need a proper valuation, she said we send a details form that you can do yourself or the club can, then send it back with some good pictures and we will keep it all on file and it will have the value agreed at 25'000!

They use a site to double check values, which she said was about right for one in A1 condition. The cost for renewal with its current £5'500 default value is £130, with it at £25'000 agreed, its £223 and that includes a £12 admin fee for adding the agreed value as an extra product which i would have to pay even if it was valued at £10'000

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2 hours ago, Danny D114BCW said:

I have done valuations for club members but unless you know the car or can view it in person it’s risky putting a value on pictures alone. 

What risk do you have?

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1 hour ago, Jessopia74 said:

What risk do you have?

Reputation being one for myself and the club. Can you imagine the backlash if I said a car was worth too dollar and it’s involved in a crash and it’s made of filler and newspaper. 
That is worst case I agree but not an impossibility. 

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51 minutes ago, Danny D114BCW said:

Reputation being one for myself and the club. Can you imagine the backlash if I said a car was worth too dollar and it’s involved in a crash and it’s made of filler and newspaper. 
That is worst case I agree but not an impossibility. 

I don’t think club members do that type of thing Danny. A valuation is hardly a safety check - have you done a full inspection and safety inspection for the ones you gave previously done? A desktop valuation is based only in what can be seen, evidenced. No independent go digging for filler etc, they just have terms such as based on evidence presented to me and information declaration from owner. 
I suppose it could be insisted on that a car that requires valuation should have an MOT if it’s never been seen before etc. 

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15 minutes ago, Jessopia74 said:

I don’t think club members do that type of thing Danny. A valuation is hardly a safety check - have you done a full inspection and safety inspection for the ones you gave previously done? A desktop valuation is based only in what can be seen, evidenced. No independent go digging for filler etc, they just have terms such as based on evidence presented to me and information declaration from owner. 
I suppose it could be insisted on that a car that requires valuation should have an MOT if it’s never been seen before etc. 

Yes I did see the cars in person. And as stated previously I wasn’t saying club members etc were pulling a fast one. But I guarantee shit would hit the tan if something like that happened. 
If some of you are stuck then I would be willing to help out but only for the hardcore lot anyway - you know who you are  👍🏼

Just now, Danny D114BCW said:

Yes I did see the cars in person. And as stated previously I wasn’t saying club members etc were pulling a fast one. But I guarantee shit would hit the tan if something like that happened. 
If some of you are stuck then I would be willing to help out but only for the hardcore lot anyway - you know who you are  👍🏼

I do think the club need to write one up which can be viewed in the members section to give some idea. Then if an insurance company needs something “official” then that’s a perk of the membership. 
I would be willing to help out. 

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Or make it in reverse,  let the club member write up the details and take the photos.

If the club had a basic guide for each model, Good, excellent,  Concours. That was updated yearly.

A simple word template, created by the club,  and all details submitted.

It would be great if each member got these yearly, with membership renewal or with magazine.  Or if possible download a PDF.

Also willing to help out.

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I used to do them when I was a rep, but like Danny I wanted to see the car so I could see the condition for myself. My last one was done by Paul Brennecker, but he had seen the car at Sywell.

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I'm with Hagerty classic insurance & they will agree values up to £20k with no pictures.

Over £20k you have to send pictures but unless your asking to insure at a massive inflated price they don't require an independent valuation.

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On 27/04/2022 at 18:24, jbk5x said:

I have just had my insurance renewal with agreed value through from Chris Knott for my 1988 Manta GSi Coupe. As well as the usual declaration on mileage and the requirement to provide photographs (they ask for these every two years) they have asked for an independent valuation. It was previously insured with an agreed value of £9500 which I feel is now a bit low and also previously did not require an independent valuation unless more than £10000 but must of changed this. Does OMOC have the faculty to do independent valuations for their members? I live in the far north mainland of Scotland and hope this will not be prohibitive.

Thanks John

I was with Chris Knott & there were various things to fill in & pics etc. Last summer their price seemed to be going up & there may have been mentions of a valuation too. Mine’s no £10k car! so I called & the guy I got on the phone didn’t have a very helpful attitude…
I then tried calling Footman James & got a really helpful lass. No hassle, they seemed to know the market so no bull & a better deal too. 
 

Shop around. 

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58 minutes ago, Rapierdave said:

I'm with Hagerty classic insurance & they will agree values up to £20k with no pictures.

Over £20k you have to send pictures but unless your asking to insure at a massive inflated price they don't require an independent valuation.

Same with mine. At these prices they know if its worth that sort of valuation or if you are trying to pull a fast one and lets face it the average normal car is 20k these days so we are not talking about a fortune. Its not a massive risk for them at that price, if your talking a Sierra Cosworth that you want to insure for 120k then they are going to want to be 100% sure on the vehicle, they said they didn't need anything from the club for less than 25k but would obviously take it if you had it as it just adds a bit more to show you are taking the time and car to do it properly.

And im sure they have small print to cover them if you did try to claim a pile of crap was that value.

Now i know this im not too fussed if the club doesn't want to do this sort of thing, its more a help for us to know the value as the insurance company know what its worth but if they know its worth 25k but you only think its worth 20k do you think they will tell you that you have it valued too low!!! i think not.

6 minutes ago, Trooker said:

I was with Chris Knott & there were various things to fill in & pics etc. Last summer their price seemed to be going up & there may have been mentions of a valuation too. Mine’s no £10k car! so I called & the guy I got on the phone didn’t have a very helpful attitude…
I then tried calling Footman James & got a really helpful lass. No hassle, they seemed to know the market so no bull & a better deal too. 
 

Shop around. 

You're right, if you get the right company they know their stuff. She asked what the car was and im sure she was looking it up while i was talking as when i said to her about 25k she said, we have a system we use for a guide and that is about right, so 25k we are happy with, i will send you the form and you can send some pics in for us to hold on file.

5 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

What risk do you have?

Not sure what you mean? excess etc..?

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Pasted from an old post that needs updated, below info was a few yrs old.

About time we had some sort of club valuation chart. It would be inaccurate like the ones in the back of classic car mags but it'd do for a 'rough value' like this topic is asking for.
 

Something like this, but these are my guessimates, not researched:- (old info)

Manta B SR coupe (75-82)

Top/A1 condition £4000

Very good but unrestored £3000

Average condition for year £1200

MOT-less needs welding or painting £300

 

Manta GTE coupe (82-87)

Top/A1 condition £3000

Very good but unrestored £2000

Average condition for year £850

MOT-less needs welding or painting £200

 

Manta GTE Exclusive (87-88)

Top/A1 condition £5000+

Very good but unrestored £2500

Average condition for year £1000

MOT-less needs welding or painting £100

Edited by ®evo03
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6 hours ago, ®evo03 said:

About time we had some sort of club valuation chart. It would be inaccurate like the ones in the back of classic car mags but it'd do for a 'rough value' like this topic is asking for.
 

There’s an unmaintained & therefore inaccurate FAQ post from 2018 

https://mantaclub.org/frequently-asked-questions/body/how-much-is-my-car-worth-r2/

The best recent guide that seems to have broad agreement is Danny’s Manta Prices thread with Dave’s detailed updates, start here:

https://mantaclub.org/forums/topic/47063-manta-prices/?do=findComment&comment=324063

Perhaps a sub-committee for price guides could be put forward at the next AGM. It would be helpful for everyone if the club’s front page FAQ prices page could be an accurate goto that was updated quarterly. 

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9 hours ago, ®evo03 said:

About time we had some sort of club valuation chart. It would be inaccurate like the ones in the back of classic car mags but it'd do for a 'rough value' like this topic is asking for.
 

Something like this, but these are my guessimates, not researched:-

Manta B SR coupe (75-82)

Top/A1 condition £4000

Very good but unrestored £3000

Average condition for year £1200

MOT-less needs welding or painting £300

 

Manta GTE coupe (82-87)

Top/A1 condition £3000

Very good but unrestored £2000

Average condition for year £850

MOT-less needs welding or painting £200

 

Manta GTE Exclusive (87-88)

Top/A1 condition £5000+

Very good but unrestored £2500

Average condition for year £1000

MOT-less needs welding or painting £100

Inadvertently you highlighted the issue. Those figures you posted are missing huge chunks of value in todays market. GTE exclusive in A1 mint condition would be 15K+ based on recent sales alone! So your right in noting that it needs research, but market trends will be the key here.
 

Just a point worthy of note You can also invalidate your insurance by under valuation at time of policy declaration. 

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Thanks guys for all the responses. I’m just off the phone to Chris Knott insurance and it is an admin error. Independent valuations are only needed for greater than 10k with them so OK to increase to £9999! It is apparently relatively easy they say to get an independent valuation. Any garage that can review (I plan to ask the garage who has done the MOT’s since 2008 and who did some body work a few years ago) to review and if happy stamp my form. 

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Is it possible to set up a community editable ‘wiki’ on the forum where users can input valuations of what they have bought and sold for, and/or prices made at Auctions as these are pretty easy to see, and auditable as the sale price is made public. (Glenmarch.com is a good link to many previous auction sales websites).

Perhaps add some description of condition and date.

For example if you take GT/E exclusives the last 3 I have seen sell at auction  inc buyer premium are

2020=£22,360,

2021=£18,360

2022=£18,597(hatch)

It would be similar to what Classic Car etc do but completed in house by people who know the cars.

Edited by Moonmonkey
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3 hours ago, ®evo03 said:

Info was copied from an old post,  as said needs u dating.

Yes mate, exactly what I was getting at. If the info is taken(wrongly) from an old post how inaccurate it can be, you highlighted it perfectly imo. As there is no specific place to get the most up to date info, it’s very hap-hazard and could potentially mean we tell our insurance companies the wrong info. 👍

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