Rusty Manta Help

[blacksun]

Ive just been under my manta, and surprise surprise it's got a hole in the sill that means it needs a complete fresh one back to front passenger side. Looks like the normal chassis leg as well.

Anyone in the south west know of somewhere i an learn to weld or of someone who would be prepared to help for beer tokens or the like. Im up the creek without a paddle at the mo. I know Bristol do an evening course thats recomended but it doesnt start till january i think. Im in Chippenham by the way.

Cheers for any help in advance.

[Rick-Manta]

You'd be best keeping you money aside to buy your own MIG welder, I personally wouldn't waste it on some patronising course. Once you have your MIG, you'll obviously need some sheet steel for your repairs but you should spend a bit of time taking a few off cuts and welding them together to teach yourself.

You can get MIG welders as a kit which'll include a couple of gas bottles and wire spools for about £300-£400 for an okay-ish one. They usually supply them with face shields which you shouldn't bother with and buy a proper helmet so you have both hands free when welding.

[keith1200]

I've got one these http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/135te-turbo-mig-welder/path/diy-mig-welders

Ideal for learning with and its perfect for mot/project welding. I've repaired inner-outer chassis legs with this model.

Also buy yourself 0.8mm tips and wire for inner chassis leg work (thicker metal) the standard 0.6mm tip/wire is perfect for

floor/inner arches/sills etc (supplied with mig). I would recommend you use gas (bottle supplied with the above mig)

The dogs bl***ks this; http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cwh5-headshield/path/welding-accessories

other goodies;

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cps75-mini-sheet-metal-cutter/path/metal-cutters-shears-folders-formers

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cht164-hand-nibbler

Register with MM and buy on their VAT free days.

As Rick has already pointed out? "teach yourself"

GL

Keith

[blacksun]

Cheers for the info guys. I'll look into them. My dad is an engineer and says he'll show me how to weld. Which is a result. Only prob is he's up the other end of the country to me.

Theres no loss in me learning to weld with this manta. Its been sat about for a few years. Its got rusty doors but ive got spares up north so might use the doors that are on it to save me having to buy metal to practice on. Pointless wasting them as they are shot on the bottom.

Where's the best place to get full sills that fit half decently. Is it 'hadrian panels' or is there somewhere else better. I cant afford doctor manta and im not bothered about having the seam at the door edge, I just want a solid manta. I take it i would need to fab up the chassis leg?

Ive just seen some full length sills on ebay from beevers panels. He seems to think that the sill fits coupe's and hatches. I thought they were different? Anyone know.

[blacksun]

Anyone know any good books to learn from. Cant find much and would prefer recomendations.

[keith1200]

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

[Rab]

Or hiv awe shifty at Haynes Car Body Repair Manual No H657

9 sections on all aspects.

Welding: Brazing,Arc,Oxy-acetylene,Mig,Tig, Welding gear choose,well worth awe read.

Jist mind and work safely all the time.Any good auld Halfords should have the book or contact Haynes direct to order.

[blacksun]

Cheers guys. Just need to order a decent sill for the passenger side. Any good panel places? Then i can set to with the tin snips.

[blacksun]

Got one ordered online thanks guys. £32 quid delivered for a full length with lip which i dont think is that bad. Just got to learn how to weld and cut the rot off. Ive got practical classics this month as it has an article on cutting equipment. Get a nice cheap one that wont blow up half way through.

If ive got the full panel, what part do i chop out up to. Just do the lot and let in fresh metal as i have the panel, I take it, but do you leave a lip to weld it to? (as long as its not rotten metal)

Going to look for a decent second hand welder as cash wont stretch too far otherwise. If I can find the cash I will get a new one.

Hopefully have it in the work in progress forum soon.

[keith1200]

Best spending a few hours looking through 'my project'! OR join up? then? pester your local OMOC rep for advice

GL

Keith

[lamchop77]

Got one ordered online thanks guys. £32 quid delivered for a full length with lip which i dont think is that bad. Just got to learn how to weld and cut the rot off. Ive got practical classics this month as it has an article on cutting equipment. Get a nice cheap one that wont blow up half way through.

If ive got the full panel, what part do i chop out up to. Just do the lot and let in fresh metal as i have the panel, I take it, but do you leave a lip to weld it to? (as long as its not rotten metal)

Going to look for a decent second hand welder as cash wont stretch too far otherwise. If I can find the cash I will get a new one.

Hopefully have it in the work in progress forum soon.

For cutting sills , or any other panels, all you need is an angle grinder. DON'T get a dirt cheap one, i did that once and while i was happily grinding away the spindle came out and whizzed past my ear at about 16000rpm and smacked into the wall behind me. It failed cos it was made from cheap s$%&, the circlip holding the spindle just bent out of shape. Get a bosch grinder as they will take 125mm cutting discs, these do last quite a bit longer han the 115mm ones, trust me i,ve used hundreds in my time.

As for welders i wouldn't get a second hand one, alot seem to be really old and alot of bits aren't available for the cheaper makes, which it sounds like your looking at. Clarke welders are pretty good for the money, the 150 te is a good un, i,ve welded 8mm u section girders with one so they'll do the thick stuff but there also good for thin body tin.

If you haven,t done welding before get alot of practice in on offcuts first and make sure that the weld penetrates right through the metal.

Sills are one of the main structural parts of the car so you need to be careful when your cutting out, in extreme cases the car can sag if you cut out the full sill. Use a piece of angle or box and tack weld into the door gap but in a way so you can still shut the door, this will stop the shell moving so you can then cut out to your hearts desire!!!

Replace the whole sill it will be alot easier to do than patching up. Just be aware that when you start cutting it will probably be three time the job that it looks. Replace all the rotten stuff with good steel and for sills i would use 1.6mm.

HTH

Chris

[blacksun]

Im going to get he recommended one from practical classics. As for the welder im going to have to hold off as my job only goes on for another 2 month so need to be careful with the cash. Second hand didnt look an option anyway as they all seem knackered. not sure where i could weld the box section to. Will have to have a look. The door definately needs to shut as its outside.

Some thieving git did have a look in the car recently. Absolutely nothing of value in there which is why i leave it unlocked. If they can start it then they are better than me at the mo. But it stops them ruining the door lock. Only noticed because the door was open. Scumbags.

Must sort it so i can drive it.

Cheers guy keep any hints and tips coming, most appreciated.

[blacksun]

I managed to get a copy of the haynes manual on bodywork. A bargain at 99p from the ebay.

[mantadoc]

Quite a good book, will give you some good ideas at least.

Did you get a full sill that goes into the door apature or a skin sill that is only the outer with a flange on? Have to be honest and £32 seems harsh for either if pattern parts.

On another note, I have a Snap Mig 130. 20 years old and it is playing up now but has had a heck of a lot more use than your average one. Lots of parts in it are shared with the 2135.

However, this one appears to be the same as Cebora / Taskmaster /BOC and others and start from around £40 on ebay. You might drop on a bargain that will do what you want for a lot less than new. Take someone along that welds with some consumables and test before you buy maybe.

One of the links in my signature shows 2 sills being replaced on a Kadett.... just hoa I did it, not recommending anything of course.

[blacksun]

I didnt have any other options when it came to sills. I took what was on offer at the time. I have heard of them for as little as a fiver. If you have any suggestions where i could get them cheaper i would really appreciate it. This is a manta and it rots almost like an alfa at the beach.

I'll have a look on ebay. Just dont want to get done over buying a pup of a welder.

Cheers for the assistance.

[mantadoc]

Generally get Hadrian / Klokkerholm ones.

Hadrian will post direct but expect to pay the postage.

[ghcoe]

Ive just been under my manta, and surprise surprise it's got a hole in the sill that means it needs a complete fresh one back to front passenger side. Looks like the normal chassis leg as well.

Hello!

Before you start cutting and welding have you heard of POR-15? I am in the U.S. but I would imagine that it is available there as well. It is also sold under a few other names such as KBS coatings. http://www.por15.com...roductinfo/1GB/

Anyway this stuff has been used here for a few years quite extensively in the automotive restoration field. No need to eliminate the rust just use a wire brush and brush the area to be coated to get the loose rust scale off, then apply. It can repair small holes with just some tape backing or larger holes with some reinforcing mesh. The good thing is that it uses moisture to cure. It also builds strength back into the metal. So if the metal is thinning do to rust then it you can restore some if not all the strength back into the metal buy adding a few layers or POR-15. They also make a POR Patch too. http://www.por15.com...roductinfo/PPB/

I had some floor board/sill thinning on my Opel Ascona and decided to give it a try. Especially since there is a small double layer of metal in that area that would be hard to weld. There were some small pin holes through the metal. I put tape on the opposite side of the metal to be painted and coated the inside. The tape holds the POR-15 in place as it dries and when it cures you just pull the tape off and the pin hole is gone. George.

[ghcoe]

Some more info

CAN POR-15 BE USED WITH FIBERGLASS?

Absolutely. POR-15 is fully compatible with fiberglass and can be used to repair cracks in gelcoat. It will adhere better than polyester resin and has greater strength. Use also with fiberglass cloth to make super-strong surfaces in rusted-out areas. But be aware that POR-15 doesn't contain styrene and thus cannot melt fiberglass cloth like polyester resin does.

This info found here http://www.rags2riches-por15.com/faqindex.html#DripRails

A couple more articles.

http://www.jeep-tech-tips.com/por-15.html

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/4576_stop_prevent_rust/photo_15.html

George.

[lamchop77]

Some more info

CAN POR-15 BE USED WITH FIBERGLASS?

Absolutely. POR-15 is fully compatible with fiberglass and can be used to repair cracks in gelcoat. It will adhere better than polyester resin and has greater strength. Use also with fiberglass cloth to make super-strong surfaces in rusted-out areas. But be aware that POR-15 doesn't contain styrene and thus cannot melt fiberglass cloth like polyester resin does.

This info found here http://www.rags2riches-por15.com/faqindex.html#DripRails

A couple more articles.

http://www.jeep-tech-tips.com/por-15.html

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/4576_stop_prevent_rust/photo_15.html

George.

Just a quick note for all, POR 15 and quite a few other products from the same company are available through Frost restorations in Rochdale. They do a mail order catalogue and i think have a website.

Chris

Edited October 6, 2009 by lamchop77

[blacksun]

Sounds good but ive got holes bigger than my fist in the sill, ive got some areas under the bonnet stuff like that might help though. Cheers fot the info.