dtm Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Hi Guys, I would like to know what settings you guys have for track cars. Im talking about camber, castor and toe. I know its difficult to change these setting in a manta (involving cutting and welding of suspension arms) but im going to do it as my redtop manta is only for track. Plus would you guys have an idea how to modify the suspension arms so that i can have adjustable castor? Many thanks guys dtm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spewy555 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Are you running power steering? Makes a big difference if you are going to increase castor by any great degree? The quick fix for castor is to cut back the front tube where the upper wishbone is connected to the cross member. You can then slide the upper wishbone back and make up the gap with washers at the rear mount. This allows you to adjust the castor back and forth.Camber can be adjusted buy reversing the upper ball joint, or if you require more you can slot the mounting holes and push the ball joint further back. As a rough set we use 2.3 deg caster ( Non Power steering ) , 2 deg camber and front track at zero. However if you are still using poly or rubber bottom bushes then you may need slight toe in. I run a corsa type electric power steering on mine so I use a lot more castor. Hope this is a good starting point for you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtm Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 thanks for the reply. sounds interesting! im not running power steering. the caster and camber sound about inline with what im reading alright. is there 0 degrees caster on a standard manta? i have read that a tiny bit of toe out is good for the manta as it make it more lively to turn into corners a little quicker? maybe not?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Are you running power steering? Makes a big difference if you are going to increase castor by any great degree? The quick fix for castor is to cut back the front tube where the upper wishbone is connected to the cross member. You can then slide the upper wishbone back and make up the gap with washers at the rear mount. This allows you to adjust the castor back and forth.Camber can be adjusted buy reversing the upper ball joint, or if you require more you can slot the mounting holes and push the ball joint further back. As a rough set we use 2.3 deg caster ( Non Power steering ) , 2 deg camber and front track at zero. However if you are still using poly or rubber bottom bushes then you may need slight toe in. I run a corsa type electric power steering on mine so I use a lot more castor. Hope this is a good starting point for you? Sorry for the hijack... As a matter of interest what castor do you run with the Corsa power steering, as this is the setup I will be using on my Ascona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spewy555 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I`m using between 7.5 deg to 9 deg castor, but my wishbones are rosejointed inner and outer so I can move them through different plains to the standard type. I always start with zero toe at first until I find what the car is doing, depending on anti-roll bar settings, toe out does work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Power Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 9 deg!!!!!! Flipping heck!! Surely that's a tad ott? Presume 7.5 deg is where you generally run it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spewy555 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 9 deg is really a rough gravel setting when I`ve got the ride height jacked right up. I`ve got the long travel front suspension so there is all sorts of camber issues! 7.5 deg or there abouts is my normal setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spewy555 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Using a lot of castor here, note the large amount of front suspension travel, but the nearside wheel remains in contact with the surface with a usable amount of neg camber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Power Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Gotcha, makes sense now! With that much travel holding negative in roll would be tricky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spewy555 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 The downside is the steering becomes incredibly heavy, had the fuse blow mid bend once and it felt like the steering had locked! Anyway, no use at all on tarmac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtm Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 thanks guys. would you have any information/pictures re what size rosejoints you have used and how did you cut the suspension arms and weld the rose joint brackets into place? this stuff is getting interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Power Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 If it were me, I'd use 5/8" thread by 1/2" hole joints and drill the holes in the x member out from 12mm to half inch. Those joints are prob a tad overkill but better that way than have one snap on you, plus the lower ones take some nasty bending loads from the spring Ps also use top quality joints with 4130 body and 52100 ball, not mild steel rubbish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtm Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 oh so your saying to completely ditch the bottom suspension arm or just cut the ends off it to weld the rose joints onto? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Power Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I have not done this on a manta so I would be guided by spewy555 but you could do it either way, but would be a lot easier to machine blocks to screw the joints into and weld them into the STD, cut down wishbone. I would make a basic jig so they came out the same length. Arms would want boxing in as well to better retain the blocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I have not done this on a manta so I would be guided by spewy555 but you could do it either way, but would be a lot easier to machine blocks to screw the joints into and weld them into the STD, cut down wishbone. I would make a basic jig so they came out the same length. Arms would want boxing in as well to better retain the blocks You can have a practice run on mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Power Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Ok, will do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cact1972 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) If it all works out on J's could be a mod for mine too!!!!! Edited May 27, 2011 by cact1972 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-Manta Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Blimey! I wish I knew what you guys were on about, I get confused trying to set the wheel alignment as routine maintainence for road use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christ Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I have not done this on a manta so I would be guided by spewy555 but you could do it either way, but would be a lot easier to machine blocks to screw the joints into and weld them into the STD, cut down wishbone. I would make a basic jig so they came out the same length. Arms would want boxing in as well to better retain the blocks I'm guessing only the upper wish bones would need this doing to make the suspension fully adjustable - something I've been thinking about doing for a while, might be interested in a set if you are contemplating fabricating some, certainly trust some made from your jig rather than one I'd put together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spewy555 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 As a matter of interest, the works cars only rose jointed the top arms, however bottom arms were modified. There is a note of caution for those who use their cars for normal road use as well. 1. Rose joints/ bearings will wear very quickly if not cleaned and maintained constantly. 2. You will bend the upper wishbone bolt very easily as there is no give whatsoever in rose joints. 3. Every fault in the rest of your suspension will become very obvious! Having said all that if it`s track use get stuck in I have got jigs for upper and lower arms but as Retro Power says they are easy enough to make if you have a welder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtm Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 thanks for the replies lads. I really think there is oppertunity here for one of you guys (either retro or spewey) to run a small scale batch of adjustable arms for the manta b. Maybe you could do them on an exchange basis? I would definately be interested in this - maybe something to look into? i would love to see a pic of that jig speewyor even one of your top/bottom suspension arm in the rally car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Power Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Spewy may be able to help now, we can do later in the year when we start on jason's ascona, at the mo we are totally snowed under with work so no time I'm afraid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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