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Carbon Fibre For Manta


opelmantagsi
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I will put this post here, not sure if its in the correct place so expect it may be relocated by an administrator

put this here so everyone can see as its something that could help us all

I have been in contact with CM Composites in the UK and they say that if there is enough interest they would consider manufacturing Carbon fiber parts for the Manta

http://www.cmcomposites.co.uk/

expensive I know but its an interesting material.

ideas...

quad head lights

englemann mirror housings

centre consoles

door cards

kick panels

rad infill panels

bulkhead covers

then there are body panels, bumpers, side skirts, the list goes on and on

Edited by opelmantagsi
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In a previous life I used to sell carbon fibre to F1 and aerospace companies. The first thing to consider is that for any part you would like you would need to have a mould or tool made. This can prove costly especially if your making something as complex as a bonnet or a boot, roof skin. If your going to keep the costs down then you can use carbon fibre and wet lay up techniques. However this produces a heavy part like grp panels. The way real competition parts are made is very expensive, especially the tooling. There was a chap selling a set of moulds for the manta somewhere on the web, but as those of you have fitted body kits will know the fit of parts can vary hugely. If the carbon part is wrong/poor fit you cannot add filler as it will be seen.

Not trying to pe on the idea just offering my experience.

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^^ yeah and one of the first questions I would have would be regarding UV and the ability to withstand it.

our UV is extreme, did read somewhere here that the CF needed to be painted to protect it from UV breakdown, but that could have been cheap Chinese stuff.

CF used a lot here in the super yachts so there must be a way of protecting it during the manufacture process but I would still be asking if its guaranteed not to break down under UV conditions

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Yes UV can be a problem resins used for motorsport are not UV stable as the parts are viewed as being short term. What is paramount is structural integrity. Whilst are carbon is black its not all the same, there are different grades depending on whether you want a 'stiff' component or something that is more flexible to absorb impacts. Then the type of carbon is combined with a specific type of resin to enhance the characteristics of the fibre.

Because the carbon is black it absorbs heat from the sun rays, this causes the resin to heat up and eventually this repeated action causes the fabric to witness through the resin making the finish uneven. If you can look at an F40 and you can see the fabric pattern through the paint.

The development of the F1 McLaren road car did a lot to push the technology forward. Getting a low cost UV stable resin is essential but the systems still have a life expectancy not as durable as steel and paint. Systemscare improving as more manufacturers use carbon in road cars. Still got some carbon parts in garage somewhere thatcwe made to demonstrate various materials.

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Just for interest I found those parts lying around my garage and a few photos of fairly quick car we supplied :D

Air intake

carbonintake_zpsfc733d77.png

carbonintake2_zpse8d133ca.png

Carbon mould / tool

IMAG0075_zps134856d8.jpg

IMAG0076_zpsdfeb0b25.jpg

Bit of carbon here but whats that at the other end!

IMAG0082_zps3fca79fa.jpg

Dont stand to close

IMAG0081_zpsa5f2da4b.jpg

Not quite tracks in the snow

IMAG0080_zps1bd18427.jpg

And the car :blink: that made them.

IMAG0079_zps577166a7.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...

Pretty sure Rallytech would make a carbon or carbon/kevlar bonnet on request.

They also have a three piece rear spoiler mould which they make in either full carbon or with just the black upper edge in carbon.

http://rallytech.co.uk/index.php/products/vauxhall--opel-parts

They make parts for pro rally teams using endless combinations of resin and reinforcing materials depending on the strength and wear resistance required.

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I can add a couple of things from our experience:

1) we have enquired with a couple of carbon fibre and higher end GRP moulding companies regarding tooling one piece Ascona 400 front wings and front bumper, plus rear boot/wing, and the tooling costs came back between £3000 and £6000 (the £3k was only the front wings and bumper on their own) The parts are then not all that cheap even in "production" as they are labour intensive.

2) we have also enquired about a carbon roofskin for another project ('69 camaro) and this came back as £5000 for the tooling and first "production" skin then £1500 per skin thereafter (that is cost to us!). i would want to see some significant demand for manta carbon roofs at £1800 each before I spent £5k on the tooling, given that I'd have to sell 17 before I broke even!!

3) the 3 piece rear spoiler with carbon lips from Rallytech is absolute crap, sorry to be so blunt, but it's moulded from a distorted Irmscher original rubber item, and a badly distorted one at that. We have a Rallytech one that we are using on a customer's car, and with the time it has taken to get it half decent we might as well have moulded our own!

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Yeah points 1 & 2 above are issues. Can't comment on 3.

I think if you can hook into small businesses or guys who can do it on the side then anything is possible, I need to go talk to a mate of a mate of a mate who works at air new Zealand's composite shop, he can seemingly make anything and is keen on doing bits for cars, so my plan is to go see him and have a chat at some stage, but right now I need to focus on getting my car semi finished.

I think if I can talk him into doing something small first and see how it goes, maybe a set of quads or englemann shells to start with.....

Edited by opelmantagsi
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I can commet on the rallytech 3 piece boot spoiler as i bought one from them a few years back .. They certainly know how to charge for it .. I got it made with the carbon tip along the top..

it was such a mess when i got it, that i actually rang to to complain but all they said was 'they hadn't made one in a long while & no one ever complained before'............( maybe they meant ,,,' we have your money now & don't care what you think')

massive work to get it right ...

I was in touch with Trevor Lewis about making me a full 400 kit at the time as he had previously helped me with an RS200 build (made from a subaru impreza),

however he said he had sold on all his moulds ..

See pic's of finished spoiler below after many hours of reshaping..

Edited by daverwd
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I can commet on the rallytech 3 piece boot spoiler as i bought one from them a few years back .. They certainly know how to charge for it .. I got it made with the carbon tip along the top..

it was such a mess when i got it, that i actually rang to to complain but all they said was 'they hadn't made one in a long while & no one ever complained before'............( maybe they meant ,,,' we have your money now & don't care what you think')

massive work to get it right ...

I was in touch with Trevor Lewis about making me a full 400 kit at the time as he had previously helped me with an RS200 build (made from a subaru impreza),

however he said he had sold on all his moulds ..

See pic's of finished spoiler below after many hours of reshaping..

yea, didn't think it was just the one we had.

The 400 kit wasn't too great either from what I've seen!

NIce work, and it is some work too, prob is its our customer footing the bill, AFTER paying for the thing!!

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