moodoo Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Guys...some advice please...? Am just finishing the bottom end of a 2.2 CIH build. It'll be a standard 2.2 engine, nothing 'fancy', I am just using pretty much all new standard parts. My question is regarding the flywheel and clutch. I currently have a 1.9 engine in my A-series, that I will be replacing with the 2.2. Do I need an uprated clutch, and if so, whats the best to go for? Also, will I need the flywheel modifying to suit, or a new flywheel? The car won't be driven that hard, but of course I want to be able to use the extra power and torque from the bigger engine without fear of the existing clutch falling to bits. Thanks in advance as usual... Fin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shug Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I used a heavy duty clutch for a 2.0 on my 2.2 which happened to be the same size as standard 2.2 Standard 2.0 is smaller I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
611 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Ran heavy duty 2.0L on mine and its was a tuned 2.1 and ran fine. Have gone for the upgrade now as will be getting a bit more power so went with the 9" option but you need a monza flywheel. Im sure there must be a thread on here with clutch info on it? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moodoo Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Thanks Andy, Shug... So sounds like HD 2.0l will be good for me..next question...what size is that compared to standard 2.0? And will it fit a 1.9 flywheel? I don't know if the 1.9 flywheel is the same 2.0/2.2? Cheers Fin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
611 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Hey Fin I think they are all the same size flywheel on the 1.9 and 2.0L? and i think the heavy duty is just upgraded springs on the clutch plate. Im not sure if the 2.2 flywheel is the same, but im sure its only when you go up the the 3.0l that they flywheel gets bigger to take the 9" Probably woth a look through the threads to see if there is any previous ones with info on. I would just get a good high quality heavy duty one and that should cope ok. Think mine was from the 2.0l and that was easily good enough for 150bhp. How much do they want for the clutch? http://www.krause-rennsporttechnik.de/shop/Motorenbereich/CIH/Kupplung-%2B-Schwungrad Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moodoo Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Hi Andy, (and anyone else who comes across this in the future!) Did a bit of research this morning, and according to the QH catalogue, the same part no is listed for 2.2 Rekord as for the HD Manta 2.0 kit, exactly as Shug said above. It's 230mm (9"?), whereas the standard 'normal duty' one seems to be 203mm. The same 203mm clutch is listed for 1.9 Manta A as well, so that would indicate the flywheels are the same too, so that makes it easy. Wouldn't have thought of Krause for the clutch, thanks for reminding me! Cheers, Fin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
611 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Hi Fin I should make a better note of spec on these things because i went through loads or searching myself for the 9" clutch and then had to get the bigger flywheel for it! And if i had know about Krause it would have saved me about a week of my time :-) Im sure the 8" was run on the 1.9 and 2.0 as im sure mine came from a 2.0. This is where we need do do technical threads rather than just always getting new threads on the same things :-) Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moodoo Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Ok...this is an excellent post... http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/10466-heavy-duty-gte-clutch/ The heavy duty clutch seems to be the 9" one, but that won't fit the standard flywheel on a 1.9 or 2.0. Strange thing is that QH list the 9" as being the HD option for 2.0, but that would actually need a different flywheel...? Anyway, the largest clutch I can do with my small flywheel is 8.5"...and I have enough bits bought already for this engine without having to go buy a new flywheel too...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
611 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Fin Your spot on. I suppose its like most things you could probably spec the HD 9" on the 2.0l when you ordered the car originally. Im not sure how much difference the 8.5 over the 8 would make. But for the 9" it is the different flywheel. And i found it quite hard tracking one down and had to have it skimmed as it had been sat around for a while, which all adds to the cost. I would go with the 8" and see how you get on. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutts Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 drew has a few 9 inch flywheels sat about last time I was up. problem with 9 inch is extra weight of flywheel almost a kilo. I opted for standard 2.0 flywheel balanced with a five pad competition plate without springs in centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamchop77 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Don't use a 2.0 clutch hd or not!!! I would look at the calibra turbo clutch, get the flywheel lightened n modded. I destroyed a 2.2 luk clutch with my race motor in less than 10 miles!!!! The problem with the manta clutch is its only 4 bolt, u really need a 6 bolt for the torque. Hth Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moodoo Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thanks guys. Chris, you think I need a 6-bolt clutch even with a standard 2.2 engine? I can imagine your race engine being a very different beast to what I'm building? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamchop77 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Fin my race motor was a std bottom end lightened and balanced with a decent head/cam/carb combo, so same pistons, crank, rods. The 2.2 has loads more torque than a 2.0 so needs something better. Can't remember your spec of engine, but if u have any sort of cam in it, it will go!!! The clutch is the weak point on the manta. Remember the 2.2 was developed as an economy engine, but was found to produce really good power when tweaked. It was only 13 bhp up on a gte. Hth Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
611 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Fin my race motor was a std bottom end lightened and balanced with a decent head/cam/carb combo, so same pistons, crank, rods. The 2.2 has loads more torque than a 2.0 so needs something better. Can't remember your spec of engine, but if u have any sort of cam in it, it will go!!! The clutch is the weak point on the manta. Remember the 2.2 was developed as an economy engine, but was found to produce really good power when tweaked. It was only 13 bhp up on a gte. Hth Chris Chris When you say the weak point is the clutch, is it the fact that its just 4 bolt and that the bolts are not that substantial? If you ran the 9" manta clutch as opposed to the calibra is it just the 4 bolt v 6 bolt or are there more differences on the calibra clutch? Could you upgrade a 4 bolt to use bigger bolts or would that not make much difference? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamchop77 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Its the fact that the clutch is 4 bolt, the clutch cover can flex. I actually buckled a 2.2 228mm clutch so that it was slipping really badly in about 10 miles, a rolling road session and 2 heats in autograss. rang helix who gave me the info. The manta 400 clutches are 228mm but are 6 bolt, fitted a 4 paddle cerametalic one and had no problems. The calibra turbo clutch is designed to take about 220 bhp so its man enough for most tuned cih motors and also has the same splines as the manta box so you only need a std clutch kit. I was going to get a steel flywheel sorted with the right pcd,recess for the spinner plate, etc for my road engine, just not git round to it yet. Hth Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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