399Road Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Hello, This is of interest to me as I'm an MOT tester and own three heavily modified classics. When are they supposed to be bringing this lot in and are they waiting for MOT Testers to start refusing to test cars that turn up 4- linked and with different engines and brakes etc.They've not told us this yet. Are they insisting your car is inspected when returning back to the road after not being taxed for a while or relying on people saying "I've IRSed my car, please book me in for an IVA". The information listed on the MOT computer about Mantas is very vague and doesn't actually say if your car has a live axle or IRS- just says it has coil springs, gives a very vague picture of chassis rails telling you where you can have rust that won't fail test, how many seats there are, what seatbelts should be fitted , where headlamp adjusters are , where to jack car up to check ball joints etc. I'd say there is no way you could compare this very basic picture to the bottom of a manta whilst testing it and the computer won't print this info so the tester would be looking under your car, then walking back to MOT computer,Entering passwords, loading up pictures ,then going back to car, looking again etc. Most testers won't have a clue what the underside of a Manta looks like (especially the younger ones in fast fit garages) and the MOT computer doesn't even list an Ascona when you type in Opel! I'd say that if your conversion is carried out well and doesn't look like something knocked up by some hillbillies on a farm for scrapheap challenge , The tester probably wouldn't even know. It's not like they have another manta in the yard, out the back to compare it to! It would also be difficult to work out if large tunnels,modified bulkheads,turrets etc were modified or just "new metal added during a restoration" if you get me! As I said I don't know when these regulations are coming in or if they are already here but if somebody brought me an IRSed Manta for test that passed all the basic prechecks, There would be no reason to turn them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary6303 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Well done that man, if i go for an mot it will be obvious that i have a large engine in my manta, i will have to tell dvla so it shows on the logbook wont i or just tell the mot man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
399Road Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Gary, Does your engine say 3.0 24Valve on the rocker cover ? The mot computer doesn't list number of cylinders when you print the check sheet out but does say what size engine it has. If there's nothing obvious on your engine saying it is a different size to original there's no reason for the tester to start looking. Remember, the tester isn't allowed to strip anything down during Test so casting numbers like 2.0 on engine blocks can simply be siliconed over if you are worried. Don't forget the tester probably won't have a clue which type of engine should be fitted. Testers are usually experts on" finding defects" with cars but not always experts" on cars" if you get me. There is no need to tell the Tester about the engine size fitted if you don't want to.... The only thing they might ask is if the service history is up to date and they should check your oil level before the test is registered on computer. Make sure your car is clean, all the lights work ,it doesn't overheat, its not full of junk and oil and coolant level is ok and you've eliminated most of the things that might annoy the tester bloke and make them then look a bit harder. Also don't have anything hanging from interior mirror like magic trees etc. A 16V manta with XE engine would look pretty standard to somebody who isn't clued up on conversions. (all the mounts look standard not made of angle iron) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary6303 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Will have to cover the engine size up and make of car then as both are on the engine, same on my c2.0let in my bmw e30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon p Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 All these regs have been in since the late 90's, they're only now being enforced in the last couple of years. I IRS'ed my A Series back in 2000 but i'll be changing it back to a live axle now so i won't need an IVA. NEVER withhold any info regarding changes to your car, an MOT tester might not be worried but the DVLA and your insurance company will most definitely be interested. By saying 'who's going to know' or 'no one will ever finds out' is just being a tad arrogant. A Q plated, IVA'ed car shows that a car is legal. A modified, original reg'ed car will stand out like a sore thumb. The DVLA inspectors frequent forums like ours and were doing the rounds at shows back in 2009. You must honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Power Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 The bit that bugs me with the system (but its a system that we have to live with, and is "better" than a lot of EU countries) is that an old car with type approval has to pass the full radii requirements check, and has to comply with current emissions standards if proof can't be sorted for engine age, DESPITE that fact that pedestrians and cars still hit each other in the same ways they did when the car was first type approved, and the bloody engine has casting dates all over it!!! Also, being a touch cheeky Simon, but are you putting an "original" manta a axle in your car, with standard links and casing etc..... Surely one way or another, if dvla/vosa got narky about it, they could catch you out on the points system? They could with a lot of mantas as though they have axles etc mounted as per original, the actual wording states "original parts".......................(though I may remember wrongly on that one) and many will have had an axle swap for an identical equivalent. The letter of the law is to try and regulate the standard of vehicles on our roads, beyond the normal MOT standard which it pretty lax when it comes to several areas. I think the radii requirements are a fair point, but badly effected in practice.............for example, on my "lotus 7 clone" or any other caterham/westfield etc, the front wheels stick out and have cycle wings over them.....Now the brackets that hold the wishbones on have to comply wth the radius requirements, and have a min. 2.5mm rad.............remember this is BEHIND the front wheel, in all planes!!!!! This means that the unfortunate pedestrian must have been hit by the wheel before cutting themselves on the slightly sharp bracket! I know that the rules are there to lessen injuries in a collision but come on! Another interesting one is exhaust manifolds. As you may have seen, a lot of these cars have "bonnet exiting" 4-2-1 manifolds on them, mine included. Now the complete exhaust must pass the radii requirements, which means no hex head bolts can be used as they are too sharp, and edges must be rolled...yada yada yada, no problems there, pretty easy to do, BUT then there is no rule to say that its dangerous to have a set of pipes at 700 deg C where anybody can just touch them!!! This was mooted for IVA but thrown out as impossible to rectify on many volume self assembly cars (i.e. caterham and westfield) Anyway, I'm off home for me tea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary6303 Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 so many valid points, quess its modify car and get it tested and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ_Sathanas Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 A modern multi-link IRS would be superior to any live axle due to better control of the wheel's posture, positive dynamic camber gains during heavy cornering and negating the classic weakness of one wheel hitting a bump disrupting the posture of the other. In real terms it's probably not worth the hassle as the usual mods, plus better location of the axle & something like a Watts linkage if your feeling swanky, would give a decent set-up. Putting-in an older system like semit-trailing arms (Sierra/E30 3-series) is almost certainly not worth the work involved. They have their own strengths and weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon p Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Also, being a touch cheeky Simon, but are you putting an "original" manta a axle in your car, with standard links and casing etc..... Surely one way or another, if dvla/vosa got narky about it, they could catch you out on the points system? They could with a lot of mantas as though they have axles etc mounted as per original, the actual wording states "original parts".......................(though I may remember wrongly on that one) and many will have had an axle swap for an identical equivalent. All going back to stock, although i could change the axle for something else and as long as it picks up on the stock mounts, i'd only loose points, not the car's ID. My dad bought me the car just before he died so keeping the ID is very important. I've done a lot of work regarding this problem, ACE has been great. I needed to know what was the best way to handle the regulations so i could offer the best advice to my customers and not run the risk of getting reported or sued in the future. There are two ways to approach modifying cars, either put a modded car through the IVA which is not to hard if you have enough time and money to do so (although it's much stricter if the car is pro built), this would cover everything from the glass E markings through to all body mods and lighting requirements. The other way is to work with in the points system as posted by Chris. Sadly, there is no other way to tackle it. Getting a 30 or 40 year old designed car is different to passing a kit car. I really feel the hole car industry, both stock and modified is being had over from all sides, from these mis-placed regulations to fuel prices but there's nothing we can do, Austraila, now there's an idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Power Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) You might think that but you should see the aussie regs!! A lot of stuff that's worse than here! I didn't realise about the reasoning for keeping the ID, can very much see where you are coming from on that one, a little different to a typical situation! The test requirements for a kit car, modified production car, personally imported car and many others are all the same, they all have to pass the "bIVA" test. PS gone through a lot of hassle with insurers, as you probably also have, re. liability for chassis design, had to change company and much more expense now, but now actually feel that our insurance is covering something, which it never did with the old company (underwritten by Aviva) who just never asked enough questions for my liking! cheers Nat Edited January 25, 2011 by Retro Power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldoradoCoupe Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Easy solution, don't bother with an irs. Why take the character out of your Manta, If you want a car with irs go and buy a Sierra, just an opinion ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary6303 Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 thats why i've decided to fit a 4ha axle, 1 its very strong, 2 keeps the character of the car, just have to find a 56" wide 4ha axle, seems to be the best route to take as when i started this thread i was thinking of fitting irs but it is alot of work and you will lose the character of the car, if irs was such an issue i would go and buy an audi s3 so keeping the cars character is for me most inportant, many thanks for your help guys in helping me to choose.now time to hunt for a 4ha axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Power Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 if you are struggling i can sort one out for you, pm me as there are a few options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy18s Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Found this whilst browsing one night http://www.kugelkomponents.com/focus/focusv8.php All bolt on! Shame it can't be used on a Manta Andy Edited February 8, 2011 by Andy18s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary6303 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Ok retro power shall do if i cant find one, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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