Newly built CIH, how hard should it be to locate the timing chain sprocket onto the cam end?

[Exclusive Opel]

Do you still need to borrow mine?

 

[611]

7 hours ago, Exclusive Opel said:

Do you still need to borrow mine?

 

It would be good to try it if you dont mind? as then it would give me a good idea of the difference between the two setups. I might as well do it while it still have the engine apart 🙂

 

Andy

[Julian]

I have an timing case that has a pair of these in, and they look to be in very good, not well worn condition, if they are of any use to any member, will only cost the postage.

[Julian]

5 hours ago, Julian said:

I have an timing case that has a pair of these in, and they look to be in very good, not well worn condition, if they are of any use to any member, will only cost the postage.

SOLD. 

[611]

2 minutes ago, Julian said:

SOLD. 

What was the dimension of the banana one from the case side out to the chain side? as it looks like the original early ones were 22mm and the later ones were 26mm. Im interested to try an early one to see what the fit is like as now i have fitted the original one for the adjuster, with the aftermarket banana one and the head torqued down i can just get the timing gear on the cam end and it would be good to see the difference the earlier thinner one would make, if any.

it does seem to be the adjuster guide that was causing all the problems but would like to fully finish the comparison to write up the blog post.

I think Thomas at Edelschmiede is looking at the possibility of getting these made to original spec.

 

Andy

[Julian]

14 hours ago, 611 said:

What was the dimension of the banana one from the case side out to the chain side? as it looks like the original early ones were 22mm and the later ones were 26mm. Im interested to try an early one to see what the fit is like as now i have fitted the original one for the adjuster, with the aftermarket banana one and the head torqued down i can just get the timing gear on the cam end and it would be good to see the difference the earlier thinner one would make, if any.

it does seem to be the adjuster guide that was causing all the problems but would like to fully finish the comparison to write up the blog post.

I think Thomas at Edelschmiede is looking at the possibility of getting these made to original spec.

 

Andy

I have got another pair that are exactly the same size only they are slightly worn, not to bad really, if you PM me your address I will send it to you.

[611]

7 minutes ago, Julian said:

I have got another pair that are exactly the same size only they are slightly worn, not to bad really, if you PM me your address I will send it to you.

Hi Julian

Thanks, that would be great, its just this one im after to test out.

 

Andy

[Julian]

I'll have to have your address if you want it Andy.  The part number by the way is. OPEL "8930033" also number 17 underneath that number. I've no idea of the history of these bits, I had a box full of stuff about ten years ago from a MANTA enthusiast who was a blacksmith in Neath. The measurment that you wanted on this item is 20.008.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Julian

[611]

9 hours ago, Julian said:

I'll have to have your address if you want it Andy.  The part number by the way is. OPEL "8930033" also number 17 underneath that number. I've no idea of the history of these bits, I had a box full of stuff about ten years ago from a MANTA enthusiast who was a blacksmith in Neath. The measurment that you wanted on this item is 20.008.

Hmm, that seems very thin? I think that might be too thin as the new aftermarket are 26mm. I think i need to try and get some measurements from an original unworn one.

 

Andy

[H-400]

I am rebuilding my engine and tried both tensioner-guides. Used an old head gasket and I didn't even use the bolts.

No problem to put the top cogwheel on the cam, also with the aftermarket one of Thomas. 

[611]

6 hours ago, H-400 said:

I am rebuilding my engine and tried both tensioner-guides. Used an old head gasket and I didn't even use the bolts.

No problem to put the top cogwheel on the cam, also with the aftermarket one of Thomas. 

Herman

That's interesting. Looking at the pic you posted of the old and the new tensioner guides the new one was longer but not by much but look at mine, its a bit longer again, i wonder if its just enough to make the difference? As with the original guide i got i can get the sprocket on with just putting it up and jiggling it into place. What top (banana shape) guide did you use?

I have a new one (not original) coming from /www.krause-rennsporttechnik.de so i can comapare it to the one i have as i got both guides at the same time and have nothing to directly compare it to.

I now have new original GM, lower sprocket, chain, long guide and tensioner guide and as soon as i have the top guide later this week i will fit up again and see how it fits and let you know. I can only presume that a few extra mm on these aftermarket guides that i have are making the difference between it going on easily and not?

 

Andy 

[611]

[H-400]

Hi Andy, tried everything. Another chain, both banana guides and tension guides. The only difference I can find (optical)  is the tensioner-guide but it fits in my engine. Maybe yours doesn't fit in my engine?  After reading this whole topic, think you are using the same head?

[611]

1 hour ago, H-400 said:

Hi Andy, tried everything. Another chain, both banana guides and tension guides. The only difference I can find (optical)  is the tensioner-guide but it fits in my engine. Maybe yours doesn't fit in my engine?  After reading this whole topic, think you are using the same head?

Hi Herman

I have not measure the overall length of the two guides but looking at them the aftermarket is quite a bit longer so it could be the issue. Yep the block and head are both the original and the 2.4

This is where it would have been handy if we lived near by as then we could have tried each others parts out and then known exactly what caused the issue 🙂

[H-400]

Must be something different, I know the old low compression heads were taller you know what I mean... At this moment I glued the timing case on my engine so checking any difference is almost inpossible. I followed all the oil pipes from the sump to the oil pump and so on just to be sure there is nothing that can block the oil capacity but that has nothing to do with your problem. That has got a only a few "influences": The lenght of the timing chain, the fabrication of the timing guides, and the diameter of the cogwheels.Also the thickness of the head gasket. This is us mecanicals with some expirience driving nuts!  I work on engines with thousand HP, but this is something I want to know so others can be helped with the same problem.

[611]

Hey Herman

Always best to check the oil ways. I had mine all back together previously and had oil pressure when i first fitted the engine, but then lots of messing with the injection to get it right and many months later when i did start it up again, and no oil and it took a bit to get it flowing again. I think, this and the tightness of the cam wheel was what put an end to the front cam bearing. So this is why im making sure this time that everything is as good as i can get it as i dont want to be doing this again!! It would be nice to drive the car again 🙂

And as you say, if we can fix a problem and document it for others to find then this is a good place to be, as i find so many threads on things where people say "all fixed now" and never post how they fixed it 😞

The main reason for starting my blog was to save info on all the little projects i have completed while i have been progressing through the build! Looking forward to testing out the hydraulic clutch as i think i might have that all figured out now 🙂

I hope to post some more info when i get this new banana guide and see how it compares to mine. Im taking pics and measurements for the blog post.

More news in a day or two 🙂 

 

Andy