How to tell if CIH has been changed to unleaded.

[Nivlek2525]

Hello,

I've picked up a cheap CIH for my project which the seller believed came out of a late GTE. I checked the engine and it was a 20E engine with loom, manifolds etc so for the price I have no complaints.  The engine was soaked in oil and the water pump looked like it had been leaking so I've started to pull it apart. I've checked the engine number against a post on this forum and it pre dates the change to unleaded. As I understand only engines after 0350....are unleaded. Mine is 031 so quite a bit earlier and not a late GTE as thought.

 

Again from reading the forum heads that are unleaded say P2E and leaded heads are XR2. Mine says XR2E.

The E looks to have been added later.

When I've taken the head off there is quite a bit of cleaning required inside but the bores look ok so and the big end bearing look fine so I think it's a viable engine. So my two questions are:

1) is there any value in wait to get a later engine if this one cleans up ok?

2) could the E indicate it's already been converted to unleaded? Is there someway to check?

I've quickly cleaned around one of valves and it looks like it might have had something done as there is a slight step but it's on the inlet and I thought only the exhausts got the hardened seats added.

8 minutes ago, Nivlek2525 said:

Hello,

I've picked up a cheap CIH for my project which the seller believed came out of a late GTE. I checked the engine and it was a 20E engine with loom, manifolds etc so for the price I have no complaints.  The engine was soaked in oil and the water pump looked like it had been leaking so I've started to pull it apart. I've checked the engine number against a post on this forum and it pre dates the change to unleaded. As I understand only engines after 0350....are unleaded. Mine is 031 so quite a bit earlier and not a late GTE as thought.

 

Again from reading the forum heads that are unleaded say P2E and leaded heads are XR2. Mine says XR2E.

The E looks to have been added later.

When I've taken the head off there is quite a bit of cleaning required inside but the bores look ok so and the big end bearing look fine so I think it's a viable engine. So my two questions are:

1) is there any value in wait to get a later engine if this one cleans up ok?

2) could the E indicate it's already been converted to unleaded? Is there someway to check?

I've quickly cleaned around one of valves and it looks like it might have had something done as there is a slight step but it's on the inlet and I thought only the exhausts got the hardened seats added.

There's evidence the heads been off before and also the thermostat was missing.

Any thoughts appreciated.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Fd2iNopsbY8B9Dah6

 

[Jessopia74]

My understanding is that to be unleaded converted it will have the Valve seat inserts machined into head, rather than just the seats cut. But you could at least use additive anyway.

Although there is one of FB currently that popped up earlier for £40+ postage, see attached picture.

[Nivlek2525]

Cheers,

 

That was my thought. Machine the head out and insert a new seat. I guess anything I think I can see on the inlet is just a machine mark from original manufacturer. I just thought it was interesting that the head has clearly been off and someone has bothered to stamp it up with the extra E. Maybe it stands for exchange or exhaust. Maybe someone on here will have see it before.

I did see that head on Facebook but to be honest I didn't pay that much more for the whole engine and all the loom etc so if I can't confirm its unleaded I'll just run an additive for the miles I'll do.  I've got first refusal in another engine a bit further away I just haven't been able to collect it yet so even if this one turns out to be a none starter I'll go with the second engine. I'm planning on collecting it anyway as a spare when I get time.

 

[Jessopia74]

Wow that was cheap then mate, I sold my gte CIH engine & loom for 300  +postage and could have sold that 5 times at that 👍

[cam.in.head]

hi. im pretty sure the 'e' will just denote that its a gte head .ie injection/ higher comp than a carburretor head. (they are basically a skimmed version of the carburettor version)

you are correct that it should have a P stamped if its an unleaded head.(march 85 onwards/ engine no 0355000 onwards)

ive had heads converted before and to be honest its better to obtain a proper gm unleaded version.(in my opinion)

there should be someone on here with one for sale surely.

 

[Nivlek2525]

Thanks, 

The E refering to injection would make sense. In that case it probably hasn't been converted. Instead of swapping the heads I think I'll just go with the other engine which I'm pretty sure is a later one. At least I'll know to check the numbers over first. The cams, follows, crank etc on this one look really good so I'll keep it for spares. Or clean it up, put it together with new gaskets etc and use it with an additive until I collect the other one. 

I'll have a think.

Thanks for the response.

 

1 hour ago, Jessopia74 said:

Wow that was cheap then mate, I sold my gte CIH engine & loom for 300  +postage and could have sold that 5 times at that 👍

I paid a £110 delivered. Nice lad, said it had been sitting around for ages. It was on Facebook and no one wanted it. Only the engine, not the gearbox. 

For the money it's a good source of spares. I think I have a spare gasket set somewhere so I might clean it up and put it back together. Should be fine with an additive???

We'll see.

[cam.in.head]

hi. the actual block / pistons etc are the same regardless of wether unleaded or not ( even a carburettor 's' engine block is the same albeit a hole for fuel pump)so if i were you i would get both engines if affordable and rebuild the best block and then fit the later unleaded head.(P2E)

if you end up using an unleaded head then yes it should be fine with additive if needs be but ive run an unconverted engine in one of mine for 10 years and 5000 miles without additive and seen no adverse effects.

you could rebuild the other engine and resell or keep as spares as parts get harder to find.

 

[H-400]

Nice work, I remember there was something with those XR2E heads. Thought they were made by Opel for Irmscher for the 2 liter CIH engine in Gp A. The original valves are the same as a std head but the flow is better. (bigger channels) Check this out before you throw this head away, could be a nice project with bigger valves (and some porting). When I see at the bottom picture looks like the valve stems have a bronce guide, someone gave this head some attention... 

[Nivlek2525]

22 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

hi. im pretty sure the 'e' will just denote that its a gte head .ie injection/ higher comp than a carburretor head. (they are basically a skimmed version of the carburettor version)

you are correct that it should have a P stamped if its an unleaded head.(march 85 onwards/ engine no 0355000 onwards)

ive had heads converted before and to be honest its better to obtain a proper gm unleaded version.(in my opinion)

there should be someone on here with one for sale surely.

 

Thanks I've spend a couple of hours this afternoon cleaning up the head. There's a lot of carbon build up but the half I have done looks good. The plan I have at the moment is to but this back together, possibly with new big end bearing as I've opened these up now and a new set is only about £30. Valves lapped in and new gaskets and water pump.  If it makes good compression I'll run it until it breaks. I've committed to get the other engine anyway. A lad has been holding it for me for months on deposit so I need to get it at some point. He has the injection tank I need so I'll have to go down anyway.

I like the idea of having a spare anyway as parts seem to be quite expensive for them. I've been spoil owning mx5s.

K.

32 minutes ago, H-400 said:

Nice work, I remember there was something with those XR2E heads. Thought they were made by Opel for Irmscher for the 2 liter CIH engine in Gp A. The original valves are the same as a std head but the flow is better. (bigger channels) Check this out before you throw this head away, could be a nice project with bigger valves (and some porting). When I see at the bottom picture looks like the valve stems have a bronce guide, someone gave this head some attention... 

Thanks. I did a little reading on the opelgt forum and someone on there has suggested as you have. Someone else said that these special heads has an extra H, i.e. XR2EH. H standing for high performance.

I measured the cam lift today and it looks to be slightly higher than the Haynes manual suggests but not by much, only about half a mm. It's stamped GM so it's not an aftermarket one.

Good spot on the valve guide, I'll look at that. According to the Haynes you can't install new valve guides and have to open them up and fit larger valve stems. Measured mine and they are all 9mm which I think is standard. Exhaust is 37mm and inlet is 42mm again, all standard I think. I'll take some photos when I get it cleaned up. Perhaps something else will jump out. 

I was a little disappointed when if found out it was an earlier engine but most of the people in the opelgt forum agree with CIH. You can run them for years without adverse affects so I'm not to concerned.

Cheers both. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Nivlek2525

[H-400]

Well yesterday (3th of jan) I got 56, means I work on those CIH engines for 35 years. Never had an old pré unleaded head with damage using unleaded feul. Had some years ago a friend with a Manta A driving a 1.9S engine on LPG and after reconditioning his old head with stem seals I found out his mixture was too lean but no damage on his valves/head. Ofcourse don't  use lean mixtures or low octane feul on high compression engines it will ruin your pistons... 

About the lift: Maybe a cam of a 1.9E engine, they had originally some more lift. Got those info somewhere...

Grts, Herman

[Nivlek2525]

Thanks Herman

And happy birthday. My boys birthday today. 9 years old. Can't believe how quickly the times passed. No manta time for me today and back to work tomorrow.