maher the hermit Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Possibly hanging on to the ignition key trying to start the car over the last few weeks the electrical contacts on the back of the ignition switch has started to go into meltdown??? worth checking its a weak point on mantas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantasrme Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Sounds like you have some loose crap in the tank that was blocking the fuel pick-up. Blowing down the fuel line cleared it for a little while but the sucking action of the car running drew it back to the pickup and blocked it fully this time. As for the no cranking i think its a seperate issue possibly caused by all the cranking to get the thing to start recently. Could be ign switch or wire to starter or starter itself, lets face it there has been an awful lot of cranking in the last few months. So either remove tank and clean it out fully, or replace it with a clean tank. Blow the fuel lines clear while the tank is off and stick a new fuel filter in for good measure. I will say if there is crap in the tank it could be the tank going rusty on top, or around where the straps hang it (although that usually has it leakng aswell) So removing it to clean might leave you with a rusty tank that needs replacing so getting a good replacement before starting wouldn't be the worst plan. If you were closer i'd say bring it around my unit and we could have it all sorted in a day, but you're a little far away. Unless you feel like a road trip Oh and i've got a good tank sat here if you need it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manta again Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 I agree that the tank needs sorting out. I have fitted anew starter motor the other week when the car stopped yesterday it wasn't a fuel related issue the car simply died electronically. The car had been running for 10mins so the ignition switch whilst might be a problem had only started the engine in one turn. The car is going the Mrs has already stated looking at replacements I need to get the bloody thing working just to sell it!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog321fish Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 When you say "the car simply died electronically" did the lights/indicators still work or was it the ignition system that "died"? What was the last thing you did to the car before you started having problems or is it a "new" purchase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manta again Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) All other electrics work except cranking, ever since I bought the car around may there has been the odd time particularly when the engine was hot that the cranking position on the ignition switch was dead, generally after faffing about for a few minutes the car would then start. this is one of the reasons why I replaced the starter motor in case it had a dead spot. If its not pi*****g down with rain tomorrow I'm taking the day off to inspect the ignition switch and start the removal of the tank. I don't see how the cars ever worked with the fuel pump located just above the inlet manifold as it gets pretty warm so that is also being covered in insulation as well as all the other things I've got to do. And if thats not enough the heating element in the oven went last night and now the kettle has shorted out ARRRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! One further thought when I remove the fuel tank can i get to the fuel pick up or will simply emptying the tank get rid of the crud. Getting very desperate now. Just had a look at the ignition switch no signs of melt down on the connecters on the back of it Edited October 31, 2011 by Manta again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog321fish Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Have you got really clean battery posts, terminals and "good" battery and engine earth points? i.e. earthed to clean solid metal not rust. I know this sounds rather obvious but worth a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray70 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Have you got really clean battery posts, terminals and "good" battery and engine earth points? i.e. earthed to clean solid metal not rust. I know this sounds rather obvious but worth a look. I agree with this post, I had the same problem with an old Belmont that I used to own, the engine earth strap looked fine until you touched it and then it just fell to bits I put a new strap on and then it was fine. You could just connect a jump lead temporarily to the engine and the other end to the body somewhere just for piece of mind to see if that eliminates the problem. ray70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manta again Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Ok one day off work later, is it fixed? Removed the tank which meant taking the towbar off The tank and pick up filter were suprisingly clean however the short length of pipe that connects the tank to the main fuel line was perished and crumbled upon trying to remove it. Hope fully this is what was causing the fueling problems. Re-routed fuel lines under the bonnet and wraped them and the fuel pump in a heat sheilding wrap. Removed the cables from the starter motor for inspection. Cut the exciter terminal off and inspected the cable, cut back a couple of cm and the put a new connector on and then covered the wires in a protective heat shield. Been out on a road trip got the car hot and then did a couple of hot starts managed to get home so maybe shes fixed. Mrs is going out in it tonight just hope she comes back without the use of the RAC or my toolkit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Ok one day off work later, is it fixed? Removed the tank which meant taking the towbar off The tank and pick up filter were suprisingly clean however the short length of pipe that connects the tank to the main fuel line was perished and crumbled upon trying to remove it. Hope fully this is what was causing the fueling problems. Re-routed fuel lines under the bonnet and wraped them and the fuel pump in a heat sheilding wrap. Removed the cables from the starter motor for inspection. Cut the exciter terminal off and inspected the cable, cut back a couple of cm and the put a new connector on and then covered the wires in a protective heat shield. Been out on a road trip got the car hot and then did a couple of hot starts managed to get home so maybe shes fixed. Mrs is going out in it tonight just hope she comes back without the use of the RAC or my toolkit. This has been to exciting to end like that Did she arrive home in it under her own steam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manta again Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 The car didn't break down on the way out but she's not due back until around 10pm So I will just have to wait until then. This is the cars last chance one repeat of these problems and its history. Mantasarme suggested running a seperate starting wire which I will do over the next few days. If the car makes it that is. This whole experience has been a real rollacoaster, THANK YOU to everyone who put forward a suggestion its now in the lap of the Manta gods as to what happens next!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amantafan Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Someone mentioned a while back checking for air leaks. I know from experience even a tiny air leak on the inlet manifold can lead to all sorts of problems as it can both cause the mixture to run lean and affect distributor vacuum advance. Stick with it. You will get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amantafan Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 OK so I just added a suggestion and a whole second page "miraculously appeared!". Still getting the hang of this forum malarkey. It was so much simpler when we used pigeons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manta again Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 She made it back without breaking down maybe its fixed!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manta again Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) Anyone want to buy a 1.8 hatch. Headlight switch failed again just as Mrs was about to go out.What are the chances of two headlight switches failing in two weeks, I guess i should of done the lottery as I am that lucky. Edited November 2, 2011 by Manta again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Anyone want to buy a 1.8 hatch. Headlight switch failed again just as Mrs was about to go out.What are the chances of two headlight switches failing in two weeks, I guess i should of done the lottery as I am that lucky. If you haven't got one, send me your address and I will post one to you, after all that you'vr gone through with that car you deserve it, completely free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog321fish Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Surely you can not be selling this car because of a failed headlight switch after all the effort you have put in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Surely you can not be selling this car because of a failed headlight switch after all the effort you have put in? I don't think he will, he's a Manta Man, he WILL fix it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manta again Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 The headlight switch had failed again but the question was why. A huge thankyou to Daivd from Mantasport for his persistent and accurate advice. The relay for the spot lights had gone wrong this had somehow led to overloading the light circuit but even with a new switch in the headlights did not come on By tracing the wires and using the mulitmeter I discovered that this overloading of the circuit had burnt out the connection for the headlights at the mulitpin connector under the steering column. By cutting the wires and re-making the connection I am pleased to say night vision has been restored. Hopefully now we can get on with enjoying driving the car until the next glitch. thank you again to all who contributed and encouraged me through a difficult week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manta again Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 I thought all my troubles were over but there back.I have just had a spate of not starting again. Just to fill you in my wife went out in the hatch on christmas eve delivering cards etc. she made about 10 stops and at the last one you guessed it no starting had to bump start her in a gravel car park which was only 4 times the length of the car!!!!! So after christmas decided to fit a secret push button started which runs from a swicthed live direct to the exciter terminal on the starter. In testing everything worked fine. then yesterday the car failed to turn over using either the original key starter or the new secret but totally useless emergency starter button. Bump starting a car in the Waitrose car park is not my idea of fun... cause everyone rushed to help . What is going on HHHEEEELLLLPPPP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manta again Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Ok getting really fed up the car now needs bump starting nearly every time it goes out. To recap it does this on both the new and old starter motor. I have put new earth straps both from battery to body work and bodywork to engine. A starter button has been installed which runs from a switched feed direct to the exciter terminal on the starter but makes no difference when the problem occurs.. All connections to the starter motor have been cleaned, cables cut and connections remade. The car always starts when cold. What am I missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog321fish Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Have you tried replacing the ignition module? and if so did you use thermal paste? Edited January 30, 2012 by dog321fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantasrme Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 If it starts when bumped it shouldn't be the ignition pack. When it doesn't turn over does the starter solenoid fire (is there a big click) or is there nothing at all? If it does fire do the dash lights dim or go out, if they do the starter motor doesn't have enough power to crank the engine over when everythings warm. You could try a 2nd battery and jump leads just to check if lack of power is the issue, a new heavy duty battery should solve the issue. Had this with my old mk2 escort started fine cold but once warm wouldn't turn over if anything else was turned on, and that was with a big heavy duty battery fitted. If there's no click even from the direct feed through your button then i'd say the starter motor is at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manta again Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 I have overcome the problem but not found the source of the problem . I have taken a direct feed from the battery to the starter button thereby by passing the entire engine cranking position on the ignition switch but have been unable to identify exactly where this circuit is breaking down. But at long last my long suffering wife can go out in the car safe in the knowledge that she is not going to get stranded and I'm relieved that I don't get called out to bump start her several times a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmantamik Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 i had a very similiar problem on a mk2 astra some years ago it turned out to be the ignition switch contacts themselves, when the key was turned to the cranking position the feed was lost to the coil ,so no matter how much it was cranked it could not fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog321fish Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Hi Manta again Is this what you have now done? "Installed a starter button which runs from a live feed direct from the battery to the exciter terminal on the starter" Most starter button kits include a relay, is this not required? What thickness wire have you used?, As you can tell electrics are not my strong point! Cheers Dave Edited February 4, 2012 by dog321fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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