Can't find the way to renew my membership.

[Sutty2006]

1 hour ago, Jessopia74 said:

Really? WTF how many threads I have I personally tagged one of the Admin or Committee members into 😬

Who are you tagging? I think I’m the only bugger still coming on here that’s got admin rights. And us admins can only progress it to the commitee who haven’t progressed it further. Stuart has replied to me and sorted the membership link on the forum, so that should be working now. Need someone to try it through the forum using safari. But until that can be tested, we won’t know. Stuart tells me it’s fixed, so we shouldn’t have a problem. As for wrong names etc, that’s a membership sec job I think.

[Jessopia74]

25 minutes ago, Sutty2006 said:

Who are you tagging? I think I’m the only bugger still coming on here that’s got admin rights. And us admins can only progress it to the commitee who haven’t progressed it further. Stuart has replied to me and sorted the membership link on the forum, so that should be working now. Need someone to try it through the forum using safari. But until that can be tested, we won’t know. Stuart tells me it’s fixed, so we shouldn’t have a problem. As for wrong names etc, that’s a membership sec job I think.

So it was fixed just like that. And it’s good to se an active admin on the site again then, but it might help if your name could have ‘admin’ or something shown like on other forums.  So I have obviously only notified committee not admin. 

[Sutty2006]

1 hour ago, Jessopia74 said:

So it was fixed just like that. And it’s good to se an active admin on the site again then, but it might help if your name could have ‘admin’ or something shown like on other forums.  So I have obviously only notified committee not admin. 

The only way you can tell a “moderator” is the tiny shield top right of my picture. I think it used to say it below profile picture but you can’t see it on safari.

[Irmscher Man]

5 hours ago, Sutty2006 said:

Who are you tagging? I think I’m the only bugger still coming on here that’s got admin rights. And us admins can only progress it to the commitee who haven’t progressed it further. Stuart has replied to me and sorted the membership link on the forum, so that should be working now. Need someone to try it through the forum using safari. But until that can be tested, we won’t know. Stuart tells me it’s fixed, so we shouldn’t have a problem. As for wrong names etc, that’s a membership sec job I think.

As far as I am aware, Louise (club sec) had communicated with Stuart last week and had advised of some of the issues with the membership problems. The thing is that without specific issues to look at, it can be quite hard to track down what they are. Once Stuart had got a handle on what the specific issue was, a fix could be applied. It seems that there is a problem with some older versions of some browsers (Safari in this case) not handling requests properly. The issue is at the users end really but a work around can be applied on the site to make it work. This may also have been the problem with one of the other issues that returned a similar error recently.

So, it was referred to the committee, who then had referred it to the site administrator but without any real context to follow. It isn't a good process obviously, and we need more moderators to be able to spot things and know how to escalate them. Thanks for doing that Sutty.

I guess it also serves as a reminder to keep your browsers up to date too!

[Sutty2006]

I’d also like to add, that digital internet thingys isnt my cup of tea. If something doesn’t work on the screen, it gets punched, kicked, set on fire then thrown out of the front door followed by my right foot. I have no empathy, sympathy, knowledge, or understanding of anything internet/digital/or Wi-Fi related technology. I bloody hate it. So any problems with the forum need sending to Stuart with screenshot evidence so it can be resolved. That’s all I’ve done in this case 👍 now, where’s my hammer, my pc is a bit slow…….. 

[Jessopia74]

1 hour ago, Irmscher Man said:

As far as I am aware, Louise (club sec) had communicated with Stuart last week and had advised of some of the issues with the membership problems. The thing is that without specific issues to look at, it can be quite hard to track down what they are. Once Stuart had got a handle on what the specific issue was, a fix could be applied. It seems that there is a problem with some older versions of some browsers (Safari in this case) not handling requests properly. The issue is at the users end really but a work around can be applied on the site to make it work. This may also have been the problem with one of the other issues that returned a similar error recently.

So, it was referred to the committee, who then had referred it to the site administrator but without any real context to follow. It isn't a good process obviously, and we need more moderators to be able to spot things and know how to escalate them. Thanks for doing that Sutty.

I guess it also serves as a reminder to keep your browsers up to date too!

It was not a browser issue, as I checked for the broken link on multiple devices to check exactly if it was that reason.

And this problem with such a chain of information - the site admin can surely cone read the threads that the problems was described, what was tested and then try to debug the problem with assistance of others if needed by PM. 

This convoluted process is not good for the club site. It certainly feels to me like these forums are a second thought. Everything takes ages to sort.

Common complaints are no response to emails, very slow response toFB access requests and membership issues that require posts to be made to get anyone to help them.  We are not in 1960s Britain, so let’s get some help for the site organised.

Sorry if it comes over as a bit of a rant, but I am not one to walk on eggshells. When I get frustrated by what I see others post that does not even directly impact me, then there is a problem with the process. It kind of meads to another issue - whole constraints on posts on this forum are also ridiculous. So what if someone wants to delete all their data - no different to them demanding it be done under Article 17 of the UK GDPR , that states individuals have the right to have personal data erased. How are we compliant with this if the site admin consists of Sutty and someone who looks after the Forums/emails as a favour to the club and not even an active member.
My concerns can be summed up that the club actually does not even have control of its site/domain/emails fully, and as such the data -then who is the controller? 
I understand all this is done as free time for the benefit of the club members, but

a) long term members (NOT ME BTW) have offered support and get ignored 

b) the club members are not 5 year olds.

I have purposely not included the shop in the above, but as it’s linked from the club and it us not clear on the store it’s separate, the only thing we get ppl posting for assistance.  This also needs some issues actioned .

Edited May 15 by Jessopia74

[Sutty2006]

1 hour ago, Jessopia74 said:

It was not a browser issue, as I checked for the broken link on multiple devices to check exactly if it was that reason.

And this problem with such a chain of information - the site admin can surely cone read the threads that the problems was described, what was tested and then try to debug the problem with assistance of others if needed by PM. 

This convoluted process is not good for the club site. It certainly feels to me like these forums are a second thought. Everything takes ages to sort.

Common complaints are no response to emails, very slow response toFB access requests and membership issues that require posts to be made to get anyone to help them.  We are not in 1960s Britain, so let’s get some help for the site organised.

Sorry if it comes over as a bit of a rant, but I am not one to walk on eggshells. When I get frustrated by what I see others post that does not even directly impact me, then there is a problem with the process. It kind of meads to another issue - whole constraints on posts on this forum are also ridiculous. So what if someone wants to delete all their data - no different to them demanding it be done under Article 17 of the UK GDPR , that states individuals have the right to have personal data erased. How are we compliant with this if the site admin consists of Sutty and someone who looks after the Forums/emails as a favour to the club and not even an active member.
My concerns can be summed up that the club actually does not even have control of its site/domain/emails fully, and as such the data -then who is the controller? 
I understand all this is done as free time for the benefit of the club members, but

a) long term members (NOT ME BTW) have offered support and get ignored 

b) the club members are not 5 year olds.

I have purposely not included the shop in the above, but as it’s linked from the club and it us not clear on the store it’s separate, the only thing we get ppl posting for assistance.  This also needs some issues actioned .

I appreciate your frustration, and genuinely wish I could do something about it. This forum has no “admins” as such. Just moderators who can lock, move or hide threads, warn and ban spam users…. That’s all we can do. Even I don’t know who to go to with certain issues. I’ve tried and tried and tried in the past to get membership issues sorted and it’s been VERY difficult. I’ve also had club members coming to me from as far as Ireland to get club valuations done on their car because they either have no rep, or their rep is unobtainable. Another reason the Mag needs to stay. I have even organised show stands in my area but get little or no interest, because folk stick to a Facebook group where it’s easy to “keep flicking through” posts and data. I have also brought this up at the last VBOA show after the quiz, where there were at least 40/50 members all sat in one place. It was asked by the commitee “does anyone have any questions/suggestions”. I emphasised that members need to USE the forum, because it’s easy now, and has been for years. Some say it’s dying off, but that’s only because the members don’t use it! I haven’t seen ANY old school members on here for years other than @irmscherMan and one or two others lurking. It’s such a shame that we have to share our info, our projects, and our advise on a free page on FB. If it was up to me, I’d ban Facebook completely. Perhaps then folk might start ringing each other again. I appreciate the fact that more needs to be done, but right now, there are very few people coming forward to assist, and it’s disheartening. I mean everything I’ve said in the nicest possible way, not having a go. Just need to put that out there. 👍

[Irmscher Man]

18 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

It was not a browser issue, as I checked for the broken link on multiple devices to check exactly if it was that reason.

It WAS a browser issue, specifically Safari. Jess, you obviously have some technical experience so to explain it in more detail as you may be interested. Some older versions of Safari were not properly handling cross domain requests in some cases with Http/2 when there may be multiple SSL certificates (typically a browser would automatically re-negotiate these). The site admin has now made some adjustments to force Http/1.1 to avoid this situation - so the fix was put in at the host end, to aid any browser compatibility issues at the users end.

I guess to be able to check this properly, you would have had to replicate the correct browser and the deprecated version to successfully recreate the issue. Just checking on different browsers wouldn't necessarily recreate the problem. I had done this myself using Chrome / Edge / Safari / Firefox and I couldn't see any issues either.

Anyway - hopefully that issue is now resolved and we should stop seeing so many broken sessions. This must be monitored though.

18 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

This convoluted process is not good for the club site. It certainly feels to me like these forums are a second thought. Everything takes ages to sort.

Common complaints are no response to emails, very slow response toFB access requests and membership issues that require posts to be made to get anyone to help them.  We are not in 1960s Britain, so let’s get some help for the site organised.

The site admin has identified an issue with the incoming emails and a better way of doing this is going to have to be investigated. The problem is that there are lots of things that need sorting out when running the club, and only a finite amount of time and people to do them. Do the committee concentrate on the Facebook page, the forum, the shop, the AGM, finances, regional events, membership updates, the National Meeting, sorting out area reps etc. They are all on the list of things to address and are being prioritised accordingly I believe. There is a committee meeting this evening to discuss exactly these points.

18 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

Sorry if it comes over as a bit of a rant, but I am not one to walk on eggshells. When I get frustrated by what I see others post that does not even directly impact me, then there is a problem with the process. It kind of meads to another issue - whole constraints on posts on this forum are also ridiculous. So what if someone wants to delete all their data - no different to them demanding it be done under Article 17 of the UK GDPR , that states individuals have the right to have personal data erased. How are we compliant with this if the site admin consists of Sutty and someone who looks after the Forums/emails as a favour to the club and not even an active member.
My concerns can be summed up that the club actually does not even have control of its site/domain/emails fully, and as such the data -then who is the controller? 
I understand all this is done as free time for the benefit of the club members, but

a) long term members (NOT ME BTW) have offered support and get ignored 

b) the club members are not 5 year olds.

Rant away - that is what this thread is about really. It is good to get everyones thoughts out in the open, as it will give the committee the opportunity to address these points. I'm not one to shy away from a healthy debate either, a bit of constructive criticism is useful.

As far as I am aware, the content management system is GDPR compliant, and is able to delete data reasonably easily, although this would have to be done at a System Administrator Level. So if a member wants to have all their personal data deleted in response to an article 17 request, this can be achieved within a few steps. All personal data is secured and only authorised persons have access to it. It is one of the reasons why it is not possible to let just anyone have admin access to the site, as this would not serve the club well with regards to GDPR. The club does have full control of its site/domain.....and the recent issues with email has been identified and a plan is being discussed on how to handle this better in future, so that requests and replies are much smoother.

Having said all that, it would probably be a good idea to have anther Data Impact Assessment done, as this has not been completed for quite a few years now. Who would be available to do this is another matter - and something that most car clubs (and indeed any social or sports club) have to contend with in this day and age. Whilst we are on the topic of data protection, the club should also revisit their Data Retention Policy, to ensure that it is not holding data that is no longer required. As I am sure you will appreciate, these are specialist tasks and not everyone has the skills or experience to do this work.....which is why many clubs and societies operate on a best endeavours basis. Fortunately, we do have some experience in house that has been able to help with this, so we are in a better place than most.

With regards to getting new people onboard to help out, discussions were taking place with one member very recently and this will also be discussed on the committee meeting to approve him onto the group of mods for the site. The club need to get some more people managing the site - that is clear. More will be required in future - why not consider helping out yourself Jess, as you obviously have a really good grasp of what is required. 

18 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

I have purposely not included the shop in the above, but as it’s linked from the club and it us not clear on the store it’s separate, the only thing we get ppl posting for assistance.  This also needs some issues actioned .

As previously mentioned elsewhere, the shop is run from the same content management system as the forum and website. It is not a separate entity, although the money is paid into a separate bank account. That is the only form of separation at present. There are plans to be discussed that may change this in future and lessen the burden on the club and improve the service. The same level of data security and management is in place here, as it uses the same CMS and policies as the rest of the site.

There are things that need sorting out and for the last few years it is obvious that Facebook has taken a preference over this site, which is a shame but kind of inevitable. We should encourage members (and non members) to use the site and get the support issues sorted out and make this place as good as it once was. It will take time and a decent amount of commitment though.

Personally, I was a lot more involved in the coordination and running of the club (and this site) but decided I needed to get some of my life back and hence why I stood down as Chairman 3 years ago. Like some others, I have a young family and I don't have as much time as I used to. I don't mind helping out where I can lend my skills and have offered to help get people up to speed with things in the past. Like so many voluntary clubs though, the omoc runs 100% on goodwill and peoples freetime, and both of these tend to dry up when things get difficult. 

16 hours ago, Sutty2006 said:

I appreciate your frustration, and genuinely wish I could do something about it. This forum has no “admins” as such. Just moderators who can lock, move or hide threads, warn and ban spam users…. That’s all we can do. Even I don’t know who to go to with certain issues. I’ve tried and tried and tried in the past to get membership issues sorted and it’s been VERY difficult. I’ve also had club members coming to me from as far as Ireland to get club valuations done on their car because they either have no rep, or their rep is unobtainable. Another reason the Mag needs to stay. I have even organised show stands in my area but get little or no interest, because folk stick to a Facebook group where it’s easy to “keep flicking through” posts and data. I have also brought this up at the last VBOA show after the quiz, where there were at least 40/50 members all sat in one place. It was asked by the commitee “does anyone have any questions/suggestions”. I emphasised that members need to USE the forum, because it’s easy now, and has been for years. Some say it’s dying off, but that’s only because the members don’t use it! I haven’t seen ANY old school members on here for years other than @irmscherMan and one or two others lurking. It’s such a shame that we have to share our info, our projects, and our advise on a free page on FB. If it was up to me, I’d ban Facebook completely. Perhaps then folk might start ringing each other again. I appreciate the fact that more needs to be done, but right now, there are very few people coming forward to assist, and it’s disheartening. I mean everything I’ve said in the nicest possible way, not having a go. Just need to put that out there. 👍

To address Steve's points in his post, the club certainly needs to reinvigorate the website, and get a decent team of people together to moderate and promote the site. A clear route for escalation and reporting issues needs to be sorted out too, as that obviously isn't working either. I would suggest a working party to be formed, to get on top of this and work with one another.

With regards to Valuations, a couple of years ago I spent a considerable amount of time putting together an online request form to gather information about members cars and allow them to submit photos to get a decent valuation. This took quite some time write and get working. We also put a small group of members together to act as a valuation panel, and a sub group created on this forum to review and chat about valuations so that a consensus of opinion could be arrived at. At this time, I also wrote the valuation guide, as something to base things on. This is still on the site, but the online valuation system never really got used, which was a shame. It is all still there but gathering cobwebs. I think this sums things  - the club has the best of intentions but falls short when it comes to supporting things.

To summarise, I agree with you Sutty. I would ban facebook too but we are past that point and there is no going back now. I still speak to club members on the phone (In fact I can count 4 so far this week) and I wouldn't change that for anything. You miss the subtle nuances in a facebook post that are apparent when you are chatting to someone on the phone. It is disheartening, and I dont think there is much we can do, other than run with what we have got and try and make the best of it.

Encouraging people to use the forum is key though. It is so much easier to find things on here that on FB for starters!

Anyway, that's my take on things. I hope it helps.....appreciate it was yet another long one. I guess I may get a "TLDR" response from some, which would be even more disheartening!

[Jessopia74]

Thanks for the detailed reply. It’s 100% clear why you did hold the position you did for so long, and the effort you continue to give does not go unnoticed or unappreciated.
I have a couple of thoughts, but will DM you. 
 

[Irmscher Man]

12 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

Thanks for the detailed reply. It’s 100% clear why you did hold the position you did for so long, and the effort you continue to give does not go unnoticed or unappreciated.
I have a couple of thoughts, but will DM you. 
 

Thanks for your kind words - it actually means a lot to be appreciated.

[Enfield]

EVERYONE,

I am a potential member who has been trying to join the club for well over 4 years. I have now finally managed to find and arrange the purchase of a car and I am still not a member!. I must ask you a fundamental question - what good is the club if you cant join it? Where are your new members going to come from? and since members always eventually leave, how do you expect the club to survive? To me, this is a fundamental question that needs to be addressed, and it affects all organizations of this era.

Surely there must be some simple method of joining the club? (even if this is a membership form with a simple cheque attached!). 

From 50 years using IT, the systems can be great, but often seldom aren't, being far too complex for their own good. At the end of the day simplicity rules OK!

[TheRealExile]

Try here.

 

https://membership.mantaclub.org/

[Jessopia74]

2 hours ago, Enfield said:

EVERYONE,

I am a potential member who has been trying to join the club for well over 4 years. I have now finally managed to find and arrange the purchase of a car and I am still not a member!. I must ask you a fundamental question - what good is the club if you cant join it? Where are your new members going to come from? and since members always eventually leave, how do you expect the club to survive? To me, this is a fundamental question that needs to be addressed, and it affects all organizations of this era.

Surely there must be some simple method of joining the club? (even if this is a membership form with a simple cheque attached!). 

From 50 years using IT, the systems can be great, but often seldom aren't, being far too complex for their own good. At the end of the day simplicity rules OK!

It’s a legitimate question in some ways, and I am vocally critical (in a positive way I hope) of any aspects of the clubs issues. However, the members , the forums and the FB group are great value in term of information available to you. Please don’t be offended by this, it us for anyone that might goof this specific question or search on the forums https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=how+to+join+omoc

[Sutty2006]

Does that above link work for you? If not, we need to find out why so that we can help you. We are a friendly bunch on here but if we don’t have the information that’s causing you this issue then we will struggle to help. 
 

let us know how you get on and we can go from there. 👍