2.0 cih engine

[Moonmonkey]

Apologies for suggesting some ideas. Only trying to help by sharing experiences, and based on the limited knowledge of your car and problem.

I hope you get it sorted

Good luck

[cam.in.head]

ah so it sounds like a problem with the servo. when you remove it you may find a hole around the studs. 2 of mine failed in this area and 1 with a split diafragm. i think i read that you replaced the servo hoses so thats another common issue solved. 

sort that problem as it needs sorting anyway and then see if its enough to cause the engine stutter issue. hopefully so.

one issue at a time.

[Brown Job]

4 hours ago, Moonmonkey said:

Apologies for suggesting some ideas. Only trying to help by sharing experiences, and based on the limited knowledge of your car and problem.

I hope you get it sorted

Good luck

Hey mate, don't apologise, my fault for not explaining at the start of this mega-whinge that the carb was a Weber.  Obviously it would be a factor to check, but we already had it apart and looked for muck in the float chamber and the other usual suspects like bolts working loose under vibration etc.  Same with the electrics, it was the very first thought in my mind when this started and I worked through all the electrical consumables to check them.  As for plugs, very hard to tell.  These are brand new at the time of the overhaul so can't tell anything from them yet.  The old ones are in a right state, but that tells me nothing since the head gasket had gone and the piston rings were worn.

BJ

4 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

ah so it sounds like a problem with the servo. when you remove it you may find a hole around the studs. 2 of mine failed in this area and 1 with a split diafragm. i think i read that you replaced the servo hoses so thats another common issue solved. 

sort that problem as it needs sorting anyway and then see if its enough to cause the engine stutter issue. hopefully so.

one issue at a time.

One issue at a time?  Wish I could get the car to read and obey that!  Blown head gasket, split servo hose, worn piston rings and finally failed alternator wiring all operating on top of each other... Damned old heap, I warned it, I've had my patience tested here and I'm negative...

Hope it is the servo as I'm running out of ideas, money, and things to replace in order to fix this problem.  And I don't have another car to use.  Am now fitter than I was 40 years ago with all this walking!

BJ.

[Moonmonkey]

4 minutes ago, Brown Job said:

Hey mate, don't apologise, my fault for not explaining at the start of this mega-whinge that the carb was a Weber.  Obviously it would be a factor to check, but we already had it apart and looked for muck in the float chamber and the other usual suspects like bolts working loose under vibration etc.  Same with the electrics, it was the very first thought in my mind when this started and I worked through all the electrical consumables to check them.  As for plugs, very hard to tell.  These are brand new at the time of the overhaul so can't tell anything from them yet.  The old ones are in a right state, but that tells me nothing since the head gasket had gone and the piston rings were worn.

BJ

No problem I know how frustrating it can be chasing down an issue that doesn’t seem to make sense. Just got to keep at it and you’ll find it

[Brown Job]

Sooo... I've kept at it, and I haven't found it.

Hissing around servo turned out to be a small leak on the connector into the servo at the hose end of things.  Connector is 12mm, hose is 13mm ID and the hose clip hadn't quite sealed it.  Fixed it.  Problem still there.

Car finally lay down and died under me after a few horrendous leapings, bangings and cuttings out on a local trip.  It would start but not run.  Rescued by AA; oh, the shame of it!

Felt that the symptoms were those of fuel starvation, despite having checked that the pump was working OK previously (on and off car), so changed the pump for a new mechanical one (like-for-like swap).  Now we were getting somewhere, quite literally.  Cautious local trips seemed OK, so an 80-mile round trip to North Wales and back was tried to include some hill work.  Still OK.  Maybe a little snatchy in the intermediates, but the 1900 seemed to be given to that anyway on the mechanical pump.

Confidence built enough to decide that it was time to get the thing properly tuned.  Turned out that the mixture was weak and the timing a bit out, although it was running and pulling well at the time.  Tuner works in a unit at the top of a hill.  Guess what happened on the way down?  Yep, fault back again.

So now what?  Throwing a total hissy fit was considered and discarded as being good for the blood pressure but unhelpful in resolving the issue.  Likewise, chucking the contents of the petrol can over the car and setting it alight.

Since the distributor and fuel pump drive are linked on this engine, I am wondering if the distributor is the real culprit.  It's never been checked or replaced in my time with the car (17 years).  Could it be that changing the fuel pump disturbed the dizzy and put something into correct (or nearly correct) alignment, only for it to be disturbed by moving the dizzy during tuning to 5⁰ BTDC?  If it's not that, what?  God help us, but I fear it might be worn bearings for the dizzy/pump drive.  Theoretically, these were not replaceable and several new parts had to be sourced and fitted.  However, I wonder if that meant what it said, or if it was just that the bearings were non-economic replacement back in the day when these were current models.  Maybe someone has experience of this?

Meanwhile, I have spent a happy time over the weekend stripping, cleaning and lubricating an old spare dizzy in the hope that this will finally resolve things.  What do the gurus think regarding my actions and potential solution?

BJ

 

[Jessopia74]

The disi is not linked in any meaningful or mechanical way as such. A relay for the fuel pump takes a tach signal (once engines starts) that hold powers the fuel pump. There could be fault in the relay that drags the green to down to a per earth, that would mess up the amplifier signal I guess, theory’s aside and how it could creat faults, how are you setting the timing? The only true TDC mark is on the flywheel, as the mark on the front pulley is the correct timing when a timing gun light is set to 0deg

[Brown Job]

Just now, Jessopia74 said:

The disi is not linked in any meaningful or mechanical way as such. A relay for the fuel pump takes a tach signal (once engines starts) that hold powers the fuel pump. There could be fault in the relay that drags the green to down to a per earth, that would mess up the amplifier signal I guess, theory’s aside and how it could creat faults, how are you setting the timing? The only true TDC mark is on the flywheel, as the mark on the front pulley is the correct timing when a timing gun light is set to 0deg

Hi Jess,

We seem to have a bit of cross-purpose here.  This is a carburated car with a mechanical fuel pump and points ignition, there are no relays involved in the business at all.  Afraid I can't tell you exactly how the timing was set, I don't have a strobe light myself and the job was done by an old-school bloke who worked on these cars when they were common.  He used the light but before he did, took No.1 plug out and turned the engine.

BJ

[Jessopia74]

5 hours ago, Brown Job said:

Hi Jess,

We seem to have a bit of cross-purpose here.  This is a carburated car with a mechanical fuel pump and points ignition, there are no relays involved in the business at all.  Afraid I can't tell you exactly how the timing was set, I don't have a strobe light myself and the job was done by an old-school bloke who worked on these cars when they were common.  He used the light but before he did, took No.1 plug out and turned the engine.

BJ

Ah, yes definitely misunderstood that one lol. so the mechanic pump does drive off the disi shaft via its own cam lobe, so there is a connection as such. However, the shaft gear would need to slip for it to change the timing. But there is something that does sometimes happen that can knock the timing out. Check the rotor arms peg is still intact. Seem them snap off and it lets the rotor arm move around on the shaft a little that knocks timing out. Checking thst us where I would start

[Brown Job]

Thanks Jess.  Will have a look at that rotor arm tomorrow (if at any point it stops raining).

But I think it's unlikely, as while I haven't looked for that rotor arm fault specifically, I and others have prodded around the dizzy, changing the condenser, points, looking for wear on the rotor arm contacts etc and I think it would have been spotted by now.

Wondering if there is something going on with either the cam on the dizzy or the helical gears themselves.  Once the original dizzy is off we can have a look.

BJ

[cam.in.head]

ive never know a distributor wear down or otherwise damage its fuel pump lobe (.its not a lobe like a camshaft style,more of an offset eccentric circle.) however easy enough to look at with the pump removed. also with regards the points ,they are quite sensitive to the correct gap (20thou) and the condenser conditon.

its a while since i did a points swap on one of these so i cannot remember if there is a baseplate earth lead in there ? or wether it just relies on mechanical mounting . the bottom bearings are usually pretty hard wearing too regards sideways movement but worth checking anyway, also make sure the rotorshaft springs back when you turn it .this is the centrifugal mechanism..and whilst you at it have a suck on the vacuum pod pipe to make sure it holds vacuum.

[mepbowles]

On 09/04/2023 at 23:27, Paul Barrett said:

Engine still available 

Hey Paul, is this engine still available?

I just got the bad news that my big end bearings have gone and in the interests of time/cost/effort, it might be less effort to just upgrade to a known good 2.0 rather than dig in and repair the 1.9.

 

Assuming the CIH is only 100-150kg I should be able to drop it in the back of my car right? 😭🤣

 

[Brown Job]

1 hour ago, cam.in.head said:

ive never know a distributor wear down or otherwise damage its fuel pump lobe (.its not a lobe like a camshaft style,more of an offset eccentric circle.) however easy enough to look at with the pump removed. also with regards the points ,they are quite sensitive to the correct gap (20thou) and the condenser conditon.

its a while since i did a points swap on one of these so i cannot remember if there is a baseplate earth lead in there ? or wether it just relies on mechanical mounting . the bottom bearings are usually pretty hard wearing too regards sideways movement but worth checking anyway, also make sure the rotorshaft springs back when you turn it .this is the centrifugal mechanism..and whilst you at it have a suck on the vacuum pod pipe to make sure it holds vacuum.

Yep, done all the advised thanks.  Vac pipe is sound but tastes disgusting.  And yes, there is a baseplate earth lead.  And checked the rotor arm as Jess suggested; as I thought, it is fine.  There's more rust inside the dizzy and indeed the rotor arm itself that would be expected given GM's total overkill damp protection layers.  That might be down to coolant vapour getting where it shouldn't when the head gasket started to go west.

Frankly, wear or damage to the fuel pump cam doesn't seem likely to me, but I really have no more options for the cause of what I'm experiencing except something to do with the distributor.  It could conceivably be bearing wear.  The spare dizzy and vac unit is OK in all respects that I can work out now that I have removed about 2" of clotted gunge from every surface.

BJ

[Paul Barrett]

6 hours ago, mepbowles said:

Hey Paul, is this engine still available?

I just got the bad news that my big end bearings have gone and in the interests of time/cost/effort, it might be less effort to just upgrade to a known good 2.0 rather than dig in and repair the 1.9.

 

Assuming the CIH is only 100-150kg I should be able to drop it in the back of my car right? 😭🤣

 

Yes mate

[mepbowles]

On 19/07/2023 at 22:35, Paul Barrett said:

Yes mate

Okay, great. I'll aim to get mine stripped at the end of August so if it's still available then, I might be in need of it. Cheers