Jack Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) . Edited January 3, 2015 by Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) One of the first jobs I ever did on a manta (well over 20 years ago) was to fix a window regulator so this topic takes me back. You need to remove the old regulator anyway so start here, remove it and put it on the bench and have a look at why its broken seized is not as bad as stripped teeth but both are fixable. The reg mech is held together with big rivets and these can be drilled out, then take it all apart, grease and refit. If you have a camera phone take a few pictures to help it all go back the same way. All those years ago mine needed new teeth made up by welding the missing teeth and then grinding new ones with a 1mm disc on the grinder If something is utterly broken then replace the whole thing but they are so simple its normally just a waste of parts. ETA: Why wont the door lock anymore ? Edited December 24, 2014 by paulmanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 Hi Paul this is my cars biggest inconvienience to be honest and I have looked at the regulator and cant find any rivets? The mechanism is already out of the car I did it the day it happened but maybe I am looking at the wrong thing but I cant find anything to drill out the only thing there is the little holes around the regulator itself. Dont worry even if it was broken beyond repair I wouldnt throw it away I cant do that with car stuff. Not sure what has happened with the door lock but it doesnt lock anymore and it needs another lockset fitting which I have but dont know how to fit. Thanks for coming to the rescue again and I would love to be able to fix it again by myself and then put the door back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Hi Jack, Take a picture of both side of the mech around the place the winder handle fits and put the pics up on here. I will describe what you need to do. Just as a thought, are the various hinges working ok ? you know, the little rollers on the end of the arms and the one that sort of spins around when it all out on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Which door is it Jack, N/S or O/S? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 Julian it is my Drivers side which has broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) Looks ok, the teeth seem ok from the pics. The rivets are the 4 round things around the bit the winder handle attaches to. First get hold of a huge cable tie or a decent bit of strap that you can wind around the whole assembly to keep the big spring in the middle from trying to move the position of the bit with teeth in relation to the bit that holds the spring and bolts to the door. A nut and bolt also will do if you can get any holes lined up. You don't want the whole lot moving when the winder shaft and cog is out, the spring is what helps you wind the window up and its under a fair bit of tension. Then drill out the 4 rivets, this will let you take the small cog that operates against the teeth out. Clean it up, apply lots of grease and put back together with 4 nuts and bolts, (M6 maybe nothing too large) Then once its back together grease up any other part that moves. Worth investigating is if the rubber window channel has become damaged and has crumpled up in the guides, its not unusual and would possibly give the same symptom you describe. Greasing that mech is only going to be a good thing, it looks drier than a wooden God. Edited December 25, 2014 by paulmanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) That is what happened with me Paul, the channel was damaged, and the glass was getting jammed on the upward and downwards travel, and as you say the teeth look good, requires greasing as you say. as for the window dropping down into the door, coould be that the glass has come loose in the glass support channel, so when you wind the window down the support channel goes down and leaves the glass behind, but the slightest jarring will cause the glass to drop down into the door. Edited December 25, 2014 by Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog321fish Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) How is the glass "fixed" along the bottom edge into the support channel, adhesive? Cheers Edited December 26, 2014 by dog321fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I think the glass is fixed in the channel by a thin bead of sealant/calk or even a strip of rubber laid over the channel and then the glass pushed in, I know its a devil of a job to remove a rusted channel off good glass so whatever it is it is effective. The issue with Jacks car now with regard to floppy window is that his whole regulator mech is on the bench (or living room floor) and there is nothing holding it up ! While you have the reg mech out give the window a few goes up and down by hand, it should be very smooth and have no hard spots, look with a good torch at the places at the front and back that the screen run in felt covered rubber channel. this should be clean, slightly fuzzy and not ripped or wrinkled. Report back ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 "Report back !" I think that is an order from Paul Jack!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 He he, Manta training "Boot Camp" ! Attention !! Surprise Concours inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Abbott Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Jack if you get a spare mech,there are 2 types as the early cars had more splines on the winder handle . Later ( Chicago grey) had a coarse spline iirc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Abbott Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Oh yea. Regarding the glass. Make sure the ' wedge ' on the back edge of the bottom of the glass is still on. They love to fall of . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 27, 2014 Author Share Posted December 27, 2014 Yes my winding mechanism is on my bedroom floor so its a pain keeping the window up. I have had a message from Blitzi and he has one that he will sell to me but the postage over christmas will take longer. I am taking my mechanism down to my friends house who has a Gold Manta tomorrow morning but as my Manta is covered in snow it wont be able to go anywhere if it doesnt clear. I tried my best to understand what you said Paul about what to do but my brain cant process and understand what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) Jack if you get a spare mech,there are 2 types as the early cars had more splines on the winder handle . Later ( Chicago grey) had a coarse spline iirc Very handy bit of info Kevin, I never knew that! I can just imagine the frustration when trying to slide the handle on the wrong one, you think Ah! that's that job done, just got to slip this winder on now!!! Edited December 27, 2014 by Julian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) I tried my best to understand what you said Paul about what to do but my brain cant process and understand what you mean. The hard part is removing the mech from the door ! Seriously, look at the mech, look at where you put the winder handle, you will see the shaft the handle goes in is round and goes into a bigger round bit that is either welded with round hollow spot welds or riveted to the big rectangular frame that the spring Is on. Those welds/rivets need to come out so you can remove the winder shaft and its cog and clean it up and grease it. BUT FIRST, you must make sure the rectangle and the long arm with the big teeth on are held still together or the big spring will try to move the arm. The little cog on the winder shaft holds it all in place until you wind the winder you see. This is probably only a grease issue, not a part fail. Once its drilled apart you can clean and re-grease it, then using 4 nuts and bolts in place of the weld you can put it all back together again. Did you check the rubber window runners in the front and back of the door yet ? Edited December 27, 2014 by paulmanta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Actually, forget all of that. Get a can of oil, 3 in one oil or engine oil, any machine oil at all but you need it in something like an oil can with a little tube. Then oil the winder cog where it touches the big teeth on the other bit. Oil it lots, all the while wind the winder around and try and get as much oil ANYWHERE the mech moves. The little end bits, the big middle hinge. OIL the whole thing. Then check the glass guide rubbers are ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upk Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Just thought I would ask but if you put the handle back on now it's removed from the car can you turn it in both directions freely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 27, 2014 Author Share Posted December 27, 2014 The window rubbers seem fine I a presuming you mean the inner rubber and the outer rubber on the door? If the weather clears a bit by tomorrow I am going down to see MantaRay to change my locks. Whilst I am there he is going to look at my winding mechanism and see if he can find what the problem is. This is if the snow dies down a bit because I had to dig the Manta out this morning and havent even drove it anywhere today even though I wanted to but couldnt because of the snow. If I put the winder handle on and the window was up it would wind down fine but it is jammed if you want to wind it up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I feel like you are not really understanding what you are looking at. Try this: 1: Put the winder handle back on the mechanism that is on your bedroom floor. 2: wind the handle either way until it stops. 3: wind the handle the other way until it stops. 4: come back on here and tell us all if the mechanism works fully both ways or not. We can move onto step 5 once you have established to me that the mech either works both ways or does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 Yes the mechanism works both ways thats what I was trying to explain when I said that it works winding down but winding up it is jammed. As it is now you can move the winder backwards and forwards but doesnt work going up. With this snow that I have had I cant even use my car and the ice is helping the window stay up. Really wanted to go to Chris's today to change my locks but I couldnt even clear my windows to see anything and it didnt want to go anywhere so I am leaving it while next week when hopefully I can get it moved. The car is having a weeks break this week as I cant use it due to the weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 "Yes the mechanism works both ways thats what I was trying to explain when I said that it works winding down but winding up it is jammed". "As it is now you can move the winder backwards and forwards but doesnt work going up." So in both cases with the mech on your floor and a winder handle fitted you can wind it both ways but one way is harder and jams up ? If so get the oil out ! OIL IT ! LOTS.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 The window rubbers seem fine I a presuming you mean the inner rubber and the outer rubber on the door? If the weather clears a bit by tomorrow I am going down to see MantaRay to change my locks. Whilst I am there he is going to look at my winding mechanism and see if he can find what the problem is. This is if the snow dies down a bit because I had to dig the Manta out this morning and havent even drove it anywhere today even though I wanted to but couldnt because of the snow. If I put the winder handle on and the window was up it would wind down fine but it is jammed if you want to wind it up again. Jack. I think that when Paul mentions the rubbers, he does not mean the rubbers on the top of the door, ie like the none that scrapes up against the glass, as the glass goes either up or down, he means the vertical window guides that the sides of the glass run in, they are located on the inside of the door ( Haven't you got a Haynes Manual? if not I'd advise you to get one) those guides have rubber in them that protects the glass from the metal channels, and sometimes the rubber gets damaged and the glass will jam in that area. By the way did you have anyone look over this car for you, or did you just buy it cos you liked the look of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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