ASCONA-HOLIC Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 As title says, I am looking for a 2.4 C24NE engine for my Ascona B. Any offers? Many thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti132 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 hello Ascona-holic I am doing the same brought my about a year ago but a friend of my as two put one in his manta A now he as done his he is going to help me with my he mite sell his second one I will ask the question for you want gearbox are you using and are you going carb your fuel injection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irmscher Man Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 The thing to be wary of with the C24NE engine is that the long stroke of the crank causes some serious wear on the bores on higher milage engines. By that, I mean any lump with over 50k miles is probably going to have slightly oval bores, which of course leads to poor combustion and loss of power/torque - which is the reason you go for this engine in the first place. It obviously not a problem if you are going to have the engine rebuilt but the choice would then be whether to go with oversized pistons (both Mahle and Wossner produce them) - http://www.tjmotorsport.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=K9006 ......or possibly look at getting the bottom end fitted with piston liners, such as the ones available from Westwood. That way, you keep the original pistons but have the expense of extra work on the boring and fitting of the liners. I think you also have to use special running in oil with these too - not checked up on this option much as I prefer the replacement piston option. I guess it depends what you want to do with the car in the longer term. If you are going to use it as a weekend warrior and not do too many miles, then the new pistons option is probably sensible. If it is going to take you 25 years to clock up the next 50k miles, then thats good value for money. If you intend to use the car a lot, then the liners are probably a better option as they are harder wearing than the cast block. Another option is to look at a well tuned 2.2 from a Carlton. Improved torque over the standard 2.0 and without the long stroke crank problems. Ive currently got both engines to look over and cant decide which way to go. The 2.2 is the cheaper option, so may be the interim one for me! As for gearboxes, the standard Getrag 240 should be fine for either option but you could also look at a 265 and a 9" clutch (as opposed to the 8.5" GT/E set up)....although probably not necessary for the power output.....just a nicer box! Hope this gives you some ideas to think about. I'm in this same quandary at the moment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 It's not a long stroke crank problem, it's a short piston skirt problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irmscher Man Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 From what I've been lead to believe from both my engine builder friend and some of the most knowledgable folk in this esteemed club, the problem is a combination of both the longer stroke and short piston skirt, Stands to reason really. The 2.4 has a bore of 95mm and a stroke of 85mm, compared to the 2.0 which has the same bore but a much shorter 69.8mm stroke. The pistons skirts can break too, so be wary of this issue too. I have a 2.4 in pieces in the garage at the moment, so it's interesting to see the wear in the block. It's been causing me headaches for some time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 The ovality is due to piston wobble, not the rod, they could have used a longer piston and shorter rod or altered the gudgeon pin height unless clearance of the bottom of the bore is an issue, but either way it's the short piston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irmscher Man Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I'm Like the man in orthopaedic shoes Mantadoc........I stand corrected! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny D114BCW Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 We are restoring and nearing completion on an exclusive. This has a 2.2 in it and a few other mods and it drives really well. The car just feels a bit more nimble on the motorways etc when sat at 70+. I do like the CIH engines and we have a wizard up here in the hills of the North West who knows more about these engines than anybody, also check out some videos on YouTube of a guy with an ascona with a crazy CIH engine. Mr Rutter knows the videos and details so maybe he will pop up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutts Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 short piston is due to long rod/stroke ratio so both correct. crazy CIH engines out there if you have the cash. best engine for regular use is 2.2 imho more torque and more friendly than 2.4 to recondition i have a PMC 2.2 engine and stage three head and cam going in my ascona a connected to a getrag 265 9 inch clutch with 6 bolt cover. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamchop77 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 The basic problem for the 2.4 is the crappy rod ratio, 1.58, this coupled with a shorter skirted piston causes the piston to wobble at the top of the bore. On the 2.4s I have its only the top 10mm of the bore that was worn, the rest was perfect. On e thing to note is that there is a 90 thou offset of the gudgeon pin to one side, the thrust side, which i assume was done to try and counter the piston wobble problem and gain higher mileage from the motors. I'm pretty sure that all aftermarket pistons have the gudgeon pin centred as its better for power, etc. The Wossner pistons have an anti wear coating on the skirts which should help matters. Also because the pistons are higher quality forged items the piston to wall clearance is tighter so there is less room for wobble to start.......wel thats my take on it!!!! Basically if your running a 2.4 budget for a future rebuild. I'm building a 2.5 but i've also gone a different route with a "long rod" 2.3 . This gives a rod ratio of 1.73 which is close to the ideal 1.75 figure thats banded about. This longer stroke engine should give more mid range and top end power and be really free revving. There could be a a small loss in low end torque but because i'm upping the capacity it should balance things out, it also will reduce side loadings on the piston and therefore wear on the bores so should last longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irmscher Man Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Well Im glad that my original comment about the rod ratio was correct. I was only repeating what I had been told from a very experienced engine builder and also one of my friends who has worked at the local Vauxhall dealership since the 1980's. I can see exactly what Lampchop is talking about on the bores of the 2.4 crankcase I have in the garage at the moment. Its not something that you can show in a photo really but in the flesh it is evident. Ive been oggling those Woosner pistons for a while and have started to look at the cost of the re-bore and piston set. At least they come with new rings and Gudgeon pins, so it almost seems like a bargain when compared to installing piston liners. Looks like I can take those orthopaedic shoes back then........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamchop77 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Yeah get em put back on!! Couple of things I'll comment on. If your going the 2.4 route get the aftermarket pistons. The Mahle ones are just not up to the job if your going to push the engine at all, same thing for the 2.2 pistons. My experience with them is that the ring landings crack and also that the ring recesses go over size which causes ring chatter which can crack them. If you do go the Wossner route be aware that the dome for raising the compression is actually the profile of the 2.0 head combustion chamber and not the 2.2/2.4 head. If you use the pistons with a std 2.2/2.4 head the dome will contact the edge of the combustion chamber on the head. It's only about 1mm or so but you will need to mod the head to clear this. Hth Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantasrme Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Some very useful information there for the CIH engines but i'd still just fit a C20XE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny D114BCW Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Nah, i like the CIH engines and would have a modified one over a valver any day. I can understand why people love the valver but the Irmscher 2.4cih on trottle bodies my mate had in his Ascona was rapid! it even nailed a new S3. I suppose its personal choice. Lamchop would a slightly thicker head gasket get over the 1mm issue you mentioned above? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamchop77 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 It might, but 20 mins and a die grinder to smooth the edge of the combustion chambers works a treat!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irmscher Man Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Risse Motorsport do a headgasket set that cures this I believe. I've still not had the time to sit down and work out the compressions ratios though, so if anyone has any thoughts on that - it woudl be handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamchop77 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Personally I'd go with the mod to the combustion chamber, it really isn't a lot to take off. I have been told that the risse headgaskets aren't really up to scratch and can fail after a few thousand miles. Elrington, paten or an MLS gasket are best. Also if you are increasing the gasket thickness you will be changing the cam timing. If your going to go the thicker gasket route go with MLS or better still copper headgasket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutts Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Guy in Wales will make a copper gasket for £100. If you send a standard one to copy. I used cometic on mine but as said check cam timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) My 2.4 has about 400 miles on and a block the dealer forgot to stamp when replaced under warranty. So if I ever use it I'll risk it as is for a few thousand miles. Cost me £400 back in 98 / 99 when I bought it just in case. Back then Fronteras weren't selling for buttons. Edited August 23, 2017 by mantadoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti132 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Spoke to my mate today he as decided to sell his spare 2.4 if you are interested let me no regards Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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