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Issues with 5speed in A series - your thoughts??


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Hi

I had someone with an A series contact me through my Opel blog asking if i knew what the issues was he was having when fitting the 5 speed to the A.

If anyone has any thoughts here is an over view.

He had a red top (or similar) fitted that ran like a bag of crap, so he got a 2.0L CIH engine, a 5speed box and fitted these in place of the other engine and box. When he first started it up it was squeaking, so he did some reading and decided it was the needle bearing in the end of the crank as he had not changed that before fitting the engine, so pulled the box, fitted the new bearing popped the box back in and started her up, problem solved. Until he went for a drive and after 1/4 mile it started to squeak again. (i have attached a video he sent of him turning it over so you can hear the noise) it now squeaks all the time?

He is now convinced that the shaft from the box is too long and touching the inside face of the crank, getting it hot and the grease is melting and knackering that new bearing?? not head that before but thoughts? He also say that first and reverse wont engage when its running with the clutch down and that if its running and he has it in gear with the clutch down the car creeps like its slightly engaged? and recons it the issue with the shaft being turned by the crank where its touching.

He has auto box oil in it and not the proper stuff and he said it has a new clutch and release bearing

Any thoughts??

Does he have more than one issue??

Andy

 

Video link

https://www.theopelproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/VID_20220705_172758.mp4

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14 minutes ago, Jessopia74 said:

Has he tried to use the clutch plate from the redtop with the 2.0 I wonder. Sounds like the big boss on the clutch plate it touching flywheel to me. 

Not sure. He is trying to see if he can solve it without taking the box out again as its a bugger to get in and out on the A.

He said if he un bolts it and moves the box out a couple of mm it stops it? so its got to be something touching when its bolted up.

I will pass on your thoughts.

Thanks for the help

Andy

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Would it be the shaft or clutch?  Or the spigot bearing?

Shame,  as a few mm spacing cures it.

Think the box is gonna come out.

Is it easier to drop front subframe with engine and box in place? Possibly run it. 

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35 years ago I changed a 4-speed to a 5-speed without changing my clutch/needle bearing. So it would wonder me if the nose 

of the shaft is too long.

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13 hours ago, ®evo03 said:

Would it be the shaft or clutch?  Or the spigot bearing?

Shame,  as a few mm spacing cures it.

Think the box is gonna come out.

Is it easier to drop front subframe with engine and box in place? Possibly run it. 

I would go subframe out as way easier!

12 hours ago, H-400 said:

35 years ago I changed a 4-speed to a 5-speed without changing my clutch/needle bearing. So it would wonder me if the nose 

of the shaft is too long.

I suppose he needs to space the box out evenly all round to see if it cures the issue, then hope it is the shaft that is too long and not something else as otherwise it will be box out, shorten the shaft, box is, noise still there, back to square 1!

I have never heard of anyone have that issue, but with an Opel there is always a first time for everything!

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Ok, a bit of an update. 2mm washers added to space the box out have stopped the noise, but he has said he is using the clutch friction plate from a 1.8 manta B 246mm one.

Any thoughts if this could cause any issue?

 

Thanks

Andy

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, 611 said:

Ok, a bit of an update. 2mm washers added to space the box out have stopped the noise, but he has said he is using the clutch friction plate from a 1.8 manta B 246mm one.

Any thoughts if this could cause any issue?

 

Thanks

Andy

Yes, the clutch driven plate  is wrong, I thought perhaps it’s the case. He needs to swap it to correct plate as there is a difference in the boss length of the clutch. It’s bottoming out. IIRC you can flip them (run backwards effectively) without much issue, but then the travel will end before plate is fullyworn.  Recommend he speak to CG motorsport in Leeds https://clutch-specialists.co.uk

Edited by Jessopia74
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9 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

Yes, the clutch driven plate  is wrong, I thought perhaps it’s the case. He needs to swap it to correct plate as there is a difference in the boss length of the clutch. It’s bottoming out. IIRC you can flip them (run backwards effectively) without much issue, but then the travel will end before plate is fullyworn.  Recommend he speak to CG motorsport in Leeds https://clutch-specialists.co.uk

Thanks mate.

I will pass this on to him so at least he can get the right one for when he does drop the box.

 

Andy 

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On 09/07/2022 at 13:30, Jessopia74 said:

Yes, the clutch driven plate  is wrong, I thought perhaps it’s the case. He needs to swap it to correct plate as there is a difference in the boss length of the clutch. It’s bottoming out. IIRC you can flip them (run backwards effectively) without much issue, but then the travel will end before plate is fullyworn.  Recommend he speak to CG motorsport in Leeds https://clutch-specialists.co.uk

this is what he has come back with, is he right???

 

Looked on auto doc at 1.8s friction plate and 2.0 Cih plate the centre boss is the same size and only difference is 1.8s is 3mm smaller on surface area 
 
1.8s clutch plate is also half the price 
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14 hours ago, 611 said:

this is what he has come back with, is he right???

 

Looked on auto doc at 1.8s friction plate and 2.0 Cih plate the centre boss is the same size and only difference is 1.8s is 3mm smaller on surface area 
 
1.8s clutch plate is also half the price 

Is that where he got said friction plate from? Reason I say is that there is difference between manufacturers. 

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2 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

Is that where he got said friction plate from? Reason I say is that there is difference between manufacturers. 

Not sure mate. He has some weird reasoning for why things are right as he sees them.

Im going to leave it up to him to work it out from now on as he still seems to thing the clutch is alright and its the box shaft that is the issue. He may well be right!!

Thanks for all the help

Andy

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if its the box actual input shaft why would it be different .surely the engines use the same crank be it 4 or 5 speed or auto and the same spigot bearing .if you changed a box you wouldnt have to fit it to a different engine or change major bits .thats assuming that it is a manta box ? 

does sound more likely an issue with the plate (or clutch related) is the release fork correctly adjusted ?is the fork actually in the bearing slot ( cant see that you would actually get it in or enough afjustmentif not but who knows. 

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5 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

if its the box actual input shaft why would it be different .surely the engines use the same crank be it 4 or 5 speed or auto and the same spigot bearing .if you changed a box you wouldnt have to fit it to a different engine or change major bits .thats assuming that it is a manta box ? 

does sound more likely an issue with the plate (or clutch related) is the release fork correctly adjusted ?is the fork actually in the bearing slot ( cant see that you would actually get it in or enough afjustmentif not but who knows. 

He said its a getrag 240 box but i have not seen any pics of it. i did ask if he had the clutch adjusted properly, but now he says he is running the 1.8 clutch plate i wonder if the adjustment being right for a 2.0 is different for the 1.8 and causing the issues.

To be honest, if i was him i would make sure the clutch was the right one for the 1.9 CIH and then go from there. He said he couldn't get 1st and reverse when it was running and i check which oil and he said he was using auto oil which was correct for that box and that would not be the issue, i gave him the correct part number for the oil and he reluctantly bought it and change the oil and guess what!! no issues with the gears now 🙂

Im going to leave him to it now as he is one of those people that ask you for advise and then says what he is doing is correct, which it seems it isn't always 🙂

 

Andy

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13 hours ago, 611 said:

🙂

Im going to leave him to it now as he is one of those people that ask you for advise and then says what he is doing is correct, which it seems it isn't always 🙂

 

Andy

Ah!  Ok step away 😂

You know it will be one of the issues already mentioned, but arrogance can get away of the obvious to some 🤦‍♂️

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