Header/expansion tank location.

[LostSoul]

Hi there

Another question from me...sorry.

Please see attached a picture of my engine bay and its after-market header tank.

I'm tidying-up the installation but it's not right...

What is the correct set-up please?

I trawled the internet but can't find reference of what the standard set up should be.

(and yes, the braided stuff is (mostly) gone now)

Thank you

 

LS 😃

 

[Jessopia74]

Correct setup was no header, pipe just runs down the side of the rad, should be a couple of tab type clips that are part of the frame that hold the hose

[LostSoul]

Thank you, Jess.

Yes, at least one of the clips is there 🙂

Forgive me for not knowing but what's the advantage to having an expansion tank please?

Also, does going back to not having one mean I should check coolant level more often?

Thanks again

 

LS

[1200bandit]

Have fitted a small expansion bottle as all the mantas l have had always put a little bit of coolant when switching of the engine 

Now the coolant never drops now 

Can post photos tomorrow if it helps 

[LostSoul]

1 hour ago, 1200bandit said:

Have fitted a small expansion bottle as all the mantas l have had always put a little bit of coolant when switching of the engine 

Now the coolant never drops now 

Can post photos tomorrow if it helps 

Sounds good, thank you. I have spotted the 800ml ally ones on ebay but noticed they are not vented. I wonder if that is an issue for the Manta?

[1200bandit]

As promised photos of my expansion bottle ( we’ll sort of ) 

Made from a washer bottle and home made bracket,total cost £0.00 as had the bits kicking around 

[LostSoul]

That looks very neat. 

At the limit of my skills but I will give it a go!

Thank you 😀

[®evo03]

Not sure on the A, but the B needs to be raised up at the front, bleed at the heater matrix, and a length of plastic waste pipe fitted to filler neck, and filled slowly.

Never has a manta spitting, could it be air locked, trapped air, or misbehaving stat. 

But great job on the expansion tank 👍

[cam.in.head]

with a normal old school radiator you dont need a header tank and shouldnt need any regular  topping up either. a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that the radiator should be full to the top like a radiator with a tank would be but realy should be a half inch or so from the top. the expansion takes place in this area .

theoretically if you overfill it ,it will blow off any excess and find its own level .

sorry if you know all this and just like the idea of an expansion bottle anyway !

[LostSoul]

2 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

with a normal old school radiator you dont need a header tank and shouldnt need any regular  topping up either. a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that the radiator should be full to the top like a radiator with a tank would be but realy should be a half inch or so from the top. the expansion takes place in this area .

theoretically if you overfill it ,it will blow off any excess and find its own level .

sorry if you know all this and just like the idea of an expansion bottle anyway !

Interesting - and no apology needed, of course (In my case, it is a safe assumption that I know nothing!)

As my car is standard spec, with standard rad, new thermostat and water pump anyway, I might just try running without an expansion tank first. I can monitor it for a while and  add the expansion tank if needed. I don't have any notes that indicate why the previous owner fitted it in the first place.

evo03, thank you for tip re raising front etc - will do!

[Sutty2006]

I’ve had a 2.0 16v fitted in my hatch for a fair few years now and never lost any coolant, nor have an expansion bottle fitted. You’ll be fine without one so long as you have bled the air out. 👍

[®evo03]

Would the expansion tank empty if it did fill ?  

[cam.in.head]

throretically yes but it would still only do the job that the top half of the radiator upper casing is doing as standard. radiator is topped up to totally full and then the expansion contraction takes place in the bottle ? 

[®evo03]

So using more fluid, better cooling. Theoretically. 

[Jessopia74]

42 minutes ago, ®evo03 said:

So using more fluid, better cooling. Theoretically. 

Yes it is a better design, hence modern systems are loss-less

[1200bandit]

On 10/12/2023 at 16:20, LostSoul said:

That looks very neat. 

At the limit of my skills but I will give it a go!

Thank you 😀

Not hard to do ,hard part was making the bracket 

 

[Jessopia74]

Just had a thought though about the expansion header tank. Ideally if adding an expansion tank, this is where the pressure cap be fitted and a blank (open) cap on the radiator used.

otherwise the tank is really a ‘catch tank’ and can’t be relied upon to keep the system levels any higher in the radiator than OEM (as expansion room description above from Cam in Head)

[1200bandit]

24 minutes ago, Jessopia74 said:

Just had a thought though about the expansion header tank. Ideally if adding an expansion tank, this is where the pressure cap be fitted and a blank (open) cap on the radiator used.

otherwise the tank is really a ‘catch tank’ and can’t be relied upon to keep the system levels any higher in the radiator than OEM (as expansion room description above from Cam in Head)

I think that’s a better description of what l have done,it works very well 

[cam.in.head]

the idea does work .various cars use a radiator with a normal 'looking' traditional radiator cap and then a tube out to an additional resevoir. the difference being the cap has to have a seal / rubber ring at the top edge too whereas most std radiator caps only have the rubber seal on the bottom section.all have the reverse valve underneath.

the water is full to the radiator cap,as it expands it goes into the bottle,as it cools it opens the reverse valve and draws fluid back in .

other cars that dont use the traditional cap design have the pressure cap on the expansion bottle instead and usually a couple of hoses into the bottle to allow a little circulation too. 

no harm fitting an expansion bottle if you like the idea. will work fine and may (as mentioned ) give more coolant capacity with some benefits ?     i personally havnt because the original setup works fine for me. very (if any) topping up req.

 

i do however think an inline (not atmosphere vented)"" breather "catch tank is a good idea thou as this can catch any oil splash blow by or condensed oil fumes / water that would otherwise find its way into the inlet  (and they do )  causing at the very least pinking at high temps / after a long constant run.on some engines. 2.2's are quite prone to this.

Edited December 14, 2023 by cam.in.head

[LostSoul]

Ran up to temperature today with new hoses. Kept coolant level up until I needed to fit the (new) rad cap.

(Water was getting past the old one even at low temperatures so seemed the right time to change!)

All worked well, nothing came through the overflow even after shut down.

I'm a big chicken though, so I've ordered a neat new expansion/catch tank (even though I smartened-up the old, perfectly good one!)

Slightest suggestion of a leak from the rad (probably showing now as the system pressure is where it should be) so I'll get it rebuilt to be safe.

All new to me, so interesting and fun to learn stuff.

Thanks again for all the information. Much appreciated 🙂

[LostSoul]

A friend from the Eighties (earlier for some) helped keep the rad together for a trip to Brooklands today - Radweld 🙀

Here's another throwback, the expansion tank installed by Mr Battrick:

 

and here's my version:

Still a bit of a bodge, probably not needed, but updated and a little 'sharper' looking?

 

[Jessopia74]

That does look neat indeed 👍