Oil Pressure Nightmares

[cam.in.head]

At least with the engine all stripped down your mechanic will be able to clean out all the oilways. Wonder what the shells looked like ?.

the compressions sound a bit low but then again the gauge I’m using is not calibrated and is only a gunsons one but at least it’s consistent to my readings as I’ve had the same gauge for a long time so easy to noticed differences .my 2.0 engines always read between 180 - 185 for non injection and 190-200 for injection but your mechanics gauge may be more accurate .

personally I’ve never had an issue with aftermarket timing chain tensioner guides so mr 611 could have got a bad make ? But if you compare parts anyway all should be well.a little tweaking is sometimes necessary with aftermarket stuff anyway.

be carefully with new rings if you are fitting them as they will need to be stepped if there is any bore wear lip at the top or a good hone out .let your mechanic decide .

hopefully the engine will be ok to reuse/ assemble after he’s done his checks .i

ive had a look at a few of my spare heads and found that on an original head the valve heads are pretty much level with the are of the metal in between the two valves. And on a recon head they are a couple of mm lower.this head did give lower compression readings than an untouched head so please make sure that yours are ok. It’s veryhard to tell from the pictures really.if the seats are too low the engine will be down on power and may even be rev limited too due to lower valve spring pressure.

one final bit of advice . If the head is skimmed ( if it’s realyrealy necessary) don’t go too far .they may tell you that the compression pressure will be better but in return the valve timing will be more retarded. Obviously not by much but it will still be a little and nowadays especially with unleaded fuel we need these engines as near to original spec as possible.

sorry if any of this is stating the obvious or something you already know. Just helping you avoid some of the issues I’ve had over the years. 

 

[ANDY ABBOTT]

8 hours ago, les87GTE said:

Reluctantly, I have to agree too. I will post a wanted thread and see what comes up. The current housing I bought off of Carl but It didn't look like that when it was fitted and so, as suggested by cam.in.head, there must be some debris in the oil causing the problem.

 

The housing was replaced last year, bought off Carl, vapour cleaned and fitted by my local garage but, as stated above, it didn't look bad at all when fitted. My original gears were re-used but I will now look to replace everything - housing, gears and chain guides.

As for the engine running beforehand it all sounded ok. A little 'tappy' up top but, I felt, it lacked a little power. When I bought my first new Manta in 1985, an 1.8s Berlinetta Coupé it was capable of reaching the 120mph + that the dial suggested but my current car struggles to get to 100mph. My mechanic has found the compression is down on two pistons - 90psi instead of 140psi - and he's still looking for any more problems ( hopefully he won't find too many ).

Curious - did you find new or use good second hand parts?

I had a spare engine knocking around so nabbed the cover of that which was in mint condition. I had new gears, chain, guides ready in stock but I'd also sent the short motor away for rebuild with forged pistons, rods, crank was re-ground, balanced, up rated mains, shells etc.. basically everything was new. It was annoying however as the engine was ment to have just been rebuilt, but it was not done correctly the first time by a previous keeper which caused damaged... 

Edited November 14, 2020 by ANDY ABBOTT

[les87GTE]

On 14/11/2020 at 16:32, 611 said:

no problem, Steve.

The cam wheel is genuine, the chain made by Piper cross i think (as i think you will be lucky to genuine now) and i think you might find timing guide hard to get genuine ones as well. once you have you list post on here and we can all see what we have spare and see what genuine stuff people have lying around.

 

a few part numbers here. i think i might have a couple of the seals spare. i will have a dig through my box of spares.

http://www.theopelproject.com/?page_id=636

 

Andy

Andy,

Having been to see my mechanic today, I have ordered a number of parts from edelschmiede (valve stem seals, slide rail, guide rail, tension arm etc.) timing chain tensioner & hydraulic lifters from elsewhere and so would be interested in your timing chain & cam wheel - please let me know how much they are? I have posted a thread for a replacement timing cover/oil pump housing & gears but, alas, had no response as yet. I have seen second hand gears on-line for £35 - £90 and new for approx. £300 and even found a new GM housing with gears/gaskets/water pump etc. for a mere £1800, which is a bit too rich for me. The head is going to have the valve seats checked and re-ground/replaced, as deemed necessary, and the injectors are being sent for refurbishment or replacement (assuming they are still available?). I think we will then be in a position to start re-assembly of the engine. 😁

Steve.

[611]

2 hours ago, les87GTE said:

Andy,

Having been to see my mechanic today, I have ordered a number of parts from edelschmiede (valve stem seals, slide rail, guide rail, tension arm etc.) timing chain tensioner & hydraulic lifters from elsewhere and so would be interested in your timing chain & cam wheel - please let me know how much they are? I have posted a thread for a replacement timing cover/oil pump housing & gears but, alas, had no response as yet. I have seen second hand gears on-line for £35 - £90 and new for approx. £300 and even found a new GM housing with gears/gaskets/water pump etc. for a mere £1800, which is a bit too rich for me. The head is going to have the valve seats checked and re-ground/replaced, as deemed necessary, and the injectors are being sent for refurbishment or replacement (assuming they are still available?). I think we will then be in a position to start re-assembly of the engine. 😁

Steve.

Hi Steve

I will clamber up in the loft tomorrow and have a rummage about in the old spares box. Edelschmiede is a good place to get stuff, i have been getting bits from Thomas since he started his shop many years ago. I think he even had the timing chain tensioner made from the original GM spec as i sent him all the info i found when the aftermarket one i had didn't fit. Most genuine stuff is very expensive these days unless you are lucky enough to stumble across someone who has parts that don't really know what they are worth!

I will message you when i know what i have and let you know a price and we can go from there. Sounds like you have most stuff aprt from that cover and the gears. have you tried german ebay?

Are you ok for engine seals? I also think i have a couple of gaskets for the CIH that i dont need, rocker cover cork gasket, thermostat housing gasket etc..

 

Andy

[611]

Hi Steve

Here are some pics of the cam wheel and timing chain.

How does £60 for the cam wheel and £20 for the timing chain sound? I have a few spare gaskets and if they are any use you can have them for free as im not going to be needing them.

 

Andy

 

[les87GTE]

21 hours ago, 611 said:

Hi Steve

Here are some pics of the cam wheel and timing chain.

How does £60 for the cam wheel and £20 for the timing chain sound? I have a few spare gaskets and if they are any use you can have them for free as im not going to be needing them.

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

That all sounds good to me. My only query is - are you able to confirm that they are the right parts for my car (1987 GTE Exclusive 2.0E inj coupé) assuming they are then I would like to buy them from you please. How would you like payment ? I can do Paypal, transfer etc. whatever suits you best.

Thanks for all your help and effort in assisting me with my car, I don't know a great deal about how it all works but I am, slowly, learning 😁. I certainly know a lot more now than I did a month ago.

Regards,

Steve.

[cam.in.head]

hi. just incase it helps on your search for a front housing unit . you dont necessarily have to fit the same type as came off. the earlier ones without injection will fit fine and just need a blanking plate over the mechanical fuel pump opening.as will the very early type with the side mounted pressure valve and flat cover. 

also dont forget the same unit is used on 6 cylinder variants too .carlton,senator,monza etc.

someone on here will no doubt have one for you .

[611]

1 hour ago, les87GTE said:

Hi Andy,

That all sounds good to me. My only query is - are you able to confirm that they are the right parts for my car (1987 GTE Exclusive 2.0E inj coupé) assuming they are then I would like to buy them from you please. How would you like payment ? I can do Paypal, transfer etc. whatever suits you best.

Thanks for all your help and effort in assisting me with my car, I don't know a great deal about how it all works but I am, slowly, learning 😁. I certainly know a lot more now than I did a month ago.

Regards,

Steve.

Hi Steve

As far as i know all the CIH engines use the same cam wheel and chain (and front cover as cam.in.head says) the covers only differ slightly and unless you need the injection pickup then i think all will fit. All the other parts (cam wheel, chain, chain guide etc..) should be the same for the 1.9 right up to the 2.4 frontera and the 3.0l engines.

Here is a second hand one the same with the listing and lookup option

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPROCKET-CAMSHAFT-CIH-2-0-2-2-2-5-2-8-3-0-Manta-Monza-Senator-Carlton-Omega-A/362834653834?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160811114145%26meid%3D0088fbc1e5be461db9e9fffc58c26dc7%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D362648424942%26itm%3D362834653834%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2334524&_trksid=p2334524.c100667.m2042

If you want to double check with a couple of members (in sure Herman will have a parts lookup book!!) on here first just to make sure i am right then no problem. The parts are yours, so no rush. Paypal is fine, the missus will probably spend it on shoes if i dont spend it first 🙂

Did you want the gaskets? If you do let me know and what your post code is a i will get a cost to send.

 

Andy

[Jessopia74]

They are all the same 👍

[les87GTE]

2 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

They are all the same 👍

Thanks Jess.

 

Latest - I now have new valve stem seals, new chain guides & rails etc., timing chain coming shortly with cam wheel, new hydraulic lifters and new oil pump gears coming too. However, I have had no joy tracking down a timing cover/oil pump housing. I've contacted Carl and he is unable to help at the moment. My current cover has the GM 90090599 number but, as pointed out by several club members, I understand other covers will fit. Anthony (Opel Parts Greece) has suggested GM 90008786/638102 but what, if any, is the difference. The parts disc has it listed for the 1.6, 1.9 & 2.0N/S with the 1.9E & 2.0E using GM 90008592/638100. My car is injected - does this make a difference? 

As always, any help would be much appreciated.

Steve.

[cam.in.head]

the only difference is injection doesnt use the mechanical fuel pump so that hole is not there .a plate will cover it up .

also note that earlier oil pump covers will use a gasket wheras later ones use sealer. your mechanic should be aware of this

[611]

4 hours ago, les87GTE said:

Thanks Jess.

 

Latest - I now have new valve stem seals, new chain guides & rails etc., timing chain coming shortly with cam wheel, new hydraulic lifters and new oil pump gears coming too. However, I have had no joy tracking down a timing cover/oil pump housing. I've contacted Carl and he is unable to help at the moment. My current cover has the GM 90090599 number but, as pointed out by several club members, I understand other covers will fit. Anthony (Opel Parts Greece) has suggested GM 90008786/638102 but what, if any, is the difference. The parts disc has it listed for the 1.6, 1.9 & 2.0N/S with the 1.9E & 2.0E using GM 90008592/638100. My car is injected - does this make a difference? 

As always, any help would be much appreciated.

Steve.

I ran an early cover on a 2.0L block and just had a plate and gasket made up to cover where the mechanical fuel pump would go. Never had any issues.

Think i have a gasket for earlier cover. If i do i will pop it in just in case you need it.

Have you tried GM6 Spares on eBay (might need to message him as nothing listed) 

What price is anything from Greece?

 

Andy

 

[les87GTE]

13 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

the only difference is injection doesnt use the mechanical fuel pump so that hole is not there .a plate will cover it up .

also note that earlier oil pump covers will use a gasket wheras later ones use sealer. your mechanic should be aware of this

Thanks for the above cam.in.head - I am aware that not all the cover plates used a gasket (my current one doesn't) but the info I have changed on an engine number and not necessarily a timing cover number. Do you know which cover has a gasket and which cover doesn't or does something else determine this? 

Steve.

 

10 hours ago, 611 said:

I ran an early cover on a 2.0L block and just had a plate and gasket made up to cover where the mechanical fuel pump would go. Never had any issues.

Think i have a gasket for earlier cover. If i do i will pop it in just in case you need it.

Have you tried GM6 Spares on eBay (might need to message him as nothing listed) 

What price is anything from Greece?

 

Andy

 

Andy,

More good information, thank you.

I will endeavour to contact GM6 Spares and see if they can help.

Steve.

[H-400]

Found the same partnumbers as above. But the later covers from '85 don't need a gasket. They have all the same gears but the later oilpump houses are not that deep milled. To check this: the old covers the gears stick 0-0,1mm out and the later 0-0,065mm. Think after all those years it is the best to fit them with sealant and try from above with a long screwdriver if they turn free. If not you can fit a thin gasket. The oilpump bottom plate is easy repaired with sandpaper and oil on a flat surface. Some timing covers have an "02" stamped on the side of the oilpump house. Those covers need oversize gears so the can NOT have standard gears. See pic 1.20:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/L0G1gqq.jpg[/img]

Edited November 21, 2020 by H-400

[H-400]

[cam.in.head]

excellent info there. 

at least he has a few choices on timing casing now. 

i assume a new one is being sort after first as im sure many members will have good used ones available if needs be. 

[les87GTE]

5 hours ago, H-400 said:

Found the same partnumbers as above. But the later covers from '85 don't need a gasket. They have all the same gears but the later oilpump houses are not that deep milled. To check this: the old covers the gears stick 0-0,1mm out and the later 0-0,065mm. Think after all those years it is the best to fit them with sealant and try from above with a long screwdriver if they turn free. If not you can fit a thin gasket. The oilpump bottom plate is easy repaired with sandpaper and oil on a flat surface. Some timing covers have an "02" stamped on the side of the oilpump house. Those covers need oversize gears so the can NOT have standard gears. See pic 1.20:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/L0G1gqq.jpg[/img]

Herman,

Thank you for this information - I was aware of the different size gears but not aware of the '02' marking on the casing to identify it - that is a very handy thing to know. When I can find a new/used housing I shall make sure it doesn't have this on. 

1 hour ago, cam.in.head said:

excellent info there. 

at least he has a few choices on timing casing now. 

i assume a new one is being sort after first as im sure many members will have good used ones available if needs be. 

cam.in.head,

Yes, it would be lovely to find a new one but, sadly, I haven't - although I'd be very happy with a good second hand one. I've tried many places via the internet with no luck apart from one which Anthony (Opel Parts Greece) has for £370 + p&p (90008786). I have a thread in the Parts Wanted but no offers as yet. I will see if anything transpires over the weekend but may have to contact Anthony again as time is ticking and my mechanic will soon want my car out of his way.

Thanks again guys,

Steve.

[cam.in.head]

 i have a few in the shed. will have a look tommorow and see if i have one with a good housing off an engine. dont want to split a full engine !

[les87GTE]

17 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

 i have a few in the shed. will have a look tommorow and see if i have one with a good housing off an engine. dont want to split a full engine !

OK, thank you.

[cam.in.head]

dont worry i havnt forgot. 

will be in the shed tommorow and report back to you with what i find !

[cam.in.head]

hi. i have found a few covers. all carb ones so you will need a plate to cover the pump hole. 

ive picked the best one and it has good useable gears and cover plate/ valve.  

i have taken photos which i cant post but can send to your email if you like. 

looking for £150 all in posted 

gm 90088845

apart from the fuel pump hole the only other difference is the crankshaft sensor tube which a gte doesnt have anyway ?

[Jessopia74]

Correct C.I.H the Le-jetronic does not use a crank sensor. 

[cam.in.head]

seen a few over the years on cam in head units but nothing in them . were they for the 2.4 or some senators ?

[Jessopia74]

3 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

seen a few over the years on cam in head units but nothing in them . were they for the 2.4 or some senators ?

Could be, or late casting ready for a change over? Would need to be very late that used a Motronic setup.

[cam.in.head]

 i have a gmx unit(2.0s) that has the tube so yes maybee used a later case in the rebuild.