Caught Out X2!

[Jonathan Pounsett]

I’ve been caught out a couple of times with my current insurer and thought I should bring these matters to club members attention.

Agreed Value. (Rant 1)

When I started my policy I agreed the value of my car at £7,000 and each year I allowed the policy to automatically renew as the premiums still seemed competitive and were lower than the preceding years. Having spent a lot of time and money refurbishing the car over the last year or so, including extensive welding repairs and a bare metal respray, I thought it was appropriate that I increased the agreed value - however to my surprise when I contacted my insurer I was informed that the agreed value only applied to the first year of my policy and for all subsequent years my car had only been covered for “market value”. Apparently the agreed value needed to be renewed every year and the onus was on me to make sure this happened. Needless to say this completely passed me by and had the vehicle been stolen or been considered a total loss in an accident I would’ve been seriously out of pocket!
 

If you don’t already review this each year I suggest you check your policy wording and if appropriate get an updated value agreed as soon as possible. 
 

Glass Cover. (Rant 2)

The above policy included glass cover so when my screen cracked in July I thought, perhaps naïvely, that this would be sorted relatively quickly. Not so! Auto Windscreens who are my insurers preferred windscreen replacement company do not hold stock of windscreen glass for the Opel Manta B and I had to wait three months for them to make a one-off special. If this wasn’t bad enough (as I’ve described in another post) they managed to break this windscreen whilst installing it and thought it was okay for me to wait around for another three months while they made another one.
 

My advice would be to check who your insurance company use for glass repair and replacement and check that it is not Auto Windscreens unless of course you can accommodate a three month delay. Luckily I’m able to keep the car in a garage and undercover, but I don’t know what they would’ve expected me to do if my car was on the driveway or parked in the street!

[®evo03]

We seriously need a valuation price guide and something generic for the club to use, we can't expect volunteers to take the time to detail each and every car, but a generic platform would be nice, and should be available on renewal, it wouldn't even need posted, as I'm sure a pdf could be used for sending on to insurance companies. 

[Sutty2006]

Problem with that is the values are up and down so much right now they’d constantly need to be updated. I’ve said in the past, and I’ll say it again your local rep should do the valuation for you. I’ve done a few for members outside my area but won’t do everyone’s. Find your area rep and send them an email. 
 

My insurance company always ask me if I want to renew the agreed value. They usually want 7 new pictures but they only get one, the mileage one lol

[Kal001]

I had similar issues with Performance Direct who after initially agreeing to look at an agreed value , valued my car “ at market value” - my question would be - what is market value for a classic ?? 

In the end I left them and got an agreed valuation through Adrian Flux ( even though they won’t insure my BMW at a sensible price ). 
 

[Sutty2006]

12 hours ago, Kal001 said:

I had similar issues with Performance Direct who after initially agreeing to look at an agreed value , valued my car “ at market value” - my question would be - what is market value for a classic ?? 

In the end I left them and got an agreed valuation through Adrian Flux ( even though they won’t insure my BMW at a sensible price ). 
 

Generally speaking, market value they look at what similar cars are selling for. 
 

when my K plate Carlton diesel got ran into by a pleb in an Audi Q7 the insurance company I’m with needed to value the car. At the time, they couldn’t find any for sale. I had to find some on marketplace and C+C, which wasn’t easy. I think I found 3. They add those values and divide by 3 to get an average. All I wanted was £630 to have the drivers side repaired and cover the spare door if bought.

 

if you’ve got a coupe, and there’s two for sale at the time, they will base the “market value” on those cars. Harder if there’s none for sale. 

[Jonathan Pounsett]

I had a bit of luck when my MX5 was written off (small dent to rear wheel arch). The guy averaged out all similar spec cars on Auto Trader and offered me less than 2k - I said this wasn’t fair because it included a load of crap ones and mine was really tidy. He agreed to ignore the bottom 50% and average the top 50%. The valuation went up to over £4k and I kept the car! 😁

Also to get a written off car back on the road is a lot simpler these days. No need for an expensive VOSA inspection, all you need is a new MOT and this was easy because I’d got one just a month earlier.

[Sutty2006]

I think it depends on the category of write off doesn’t it? If you had a minor dent, that’s easy to fix. But say a car with a twisted subframe and bent floor would need the proper structural check. I could be wrong, things may have changed now. 

[®evo03]

Wouldn't be unreasonable for the club to review valuations live. Twice a year, spring and autumn. There is a reason for that😉

It's weird that insurance companies base their values on asking prices.

But it would be even worse if it was based on classic car price guide, out of touch !

Anyone out there that can create a OMOC GUIDE ? 

 

[Sutty2006]

2 hours ago, ®evo03 said:

Wouldn't be unreasonable for the club to review valuations live. Twice a year, spring and autumn. There is a reason for that😉

It's weird that insurance companies base their values on asking prices.

But it would be even worse if it was based on classic car price guide, out of touch !

Anyone out there that can create a OMOC GUIDE ? 

 

I definitely don’t have the know-how or digital experience what-not to do it. But that’s all it needs. Someone to come forward and volunteer to do it. Then keep in touch with monitoring values etc. if no one wants to do it, it doesn’t get done. It’s all well telling the club what to do, but at the end of the day it’s run by volunteers who give up their spare time. 

[Jonathan Pounsett]

3 hours ago, ®evo03 said:

Wouldn't be unreasonable for the club to review valuations live. Twice a year, spring and autumn. There is a reason for that😉

It's weird that insurance companies base their values on asking prices.

But it would be even worse if it was based on classic car price guide, out of touch !

Anyone out there that can create a OMOC GUIDE ? 

 

I think we all know quite a bit about each other’s cars and Manta models generally. I wonder how close you would get to the correct valuation if someone just requested club members state what they think your car is worth and you average out the valuation  stated  by all those that reply. For example if you were looking for that particular model and you had the money to spend, what would you pay to get your hands on it?

As soon as something pops up on eBay or elsewhere we all have an idea of what it would be worth to us personally. I think this is true from a basket case that probably gets chopped up for spares right through to concourse models. 

[BarryD89]

3 hours ago, ®evo03 said:

 

It's weird that insurance companies base their values on asking prices.

 

Insurance is supposed to put you back into the position you were in before the incident occurred.  Generally with a modern car it’s easy, even with a 15 year old it’s a struggle but I’ve found their assessors will work with you to evaluate what’s for sale and come up with a fair market value for yours.  The need for agreed value comes when there isn’t much of any stock moving.

I would have thought an easy option for the club could be to start collating sale prices and described condition at sale, over the last year / two years and a realistic guide price could then be worked out.  
 

Insurance is never going to pay for a £30k restoration when the cars are selling on average for £15k, and it’s no good pointing to the last Matthewsons sale and saying all Manta GTEs are now worth £17k.  But it’s a good indicator that presentable clean, period correct GTEs should be over £12k, who knows 1.8 Exclusives may be worth something then lol 😝 

Edited December 18, 2022 by BarryD89

[Jonathan Pounsett]

What about tabulating what we as owner truly believe our cars are worth?

• What they were worth before we did any work to them,
• What we think they are worth now,
• What we think they will be worth now the resto is complete or when the resto is complete,
• What they would be worth if we hadn’t messed about with them or bodge them up. 
   

@BarryD89is right that we shouldn’t expect to get back every penny we’ve invested in a restoration but it must be worth something. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Jonathan Pounsett
Changed hodged to bodged 😁

[Jonathan Pounsett]

I posted some negative feedback on Trustpilot regarding my windscreen replacement fiasco and them subsequently ignoring my emails.

Today I have received a message saying my policy has been cancelled!

Coincidence?

 

[Jessopia74]

So you had no communication with them about cancellation before this letter? 😬

[®evo03]

Think there was a table, see can I find it, but info would be dated. 

Think we would need clarification from the main men and ladies. 

Could be voted on or put forward for next AGM 

Edited December 19, 2022 by ®evo03

[®evo03]

Be a nice fitting tribute to name it after him 👊

That Danny fella, had a very good go at it, makes sense to me, may need slight adjustment ?  Thanks Danny 👍 he knew his stuff 👍

Going off the A series thread in the Ebay section I thought I would start a thread about pricing.

Manta prices are on the up and as stated before on this forum, some are rising faster than others. Keeping the obvious and special editions to one side, this is a basic overview of where I and a few others who have been restoring and dealing with a lot of cars for many years see prices (this is purely going off actual sales etc). £30,000 for a B restored series coupe is madness, whoever valued that also isn't helping the market values & with respect its purely - bonkers. 

Why and where magazines get their numbers from I have no idea as they do not match up with cars that have actually sold and or been advertised? 

The below is a very basic look at prices and specs, highly modified models are a different beast but not always more desirable and original/standard always seem to sell faster. The rough estimates below are for complete coupes, hatchbacks where applicable you can knock at least 30-40% off the price. If the spec of car is something like a GT/J, 1.8 etc you can knock 20% off the 'top spec' ones.

A series Mantas - these are not as sought after as the other cars (which is a bit of a surprise), I think this is due to the fact of how rare they are and they seem to be a bit of a forgotten gem of this era and often overlooked. They are starting to rise price wise though but not as much as they deserve with people hunting for them more year on year, this should start to see demand rise meaning prices should follow. 

Rotten/project = £1000 - £2500

Good condition = £4000 - £6000

Very Good condition £6000 - £8000

Mint condition (show standard) = £8000 - £10,000

B series Mantas - these are starting to rise price wise but as mentioned before they were slow for a long time, but getting noticed now and seems a similar story to the A series. Most (not all) people who buy or enquire about them always say they are going to modify them (basically make it look like a later one) which is a shame as if that is the case.......buy a later one. The B series take an age to sell compared to the later ones (that goes for parts too really) it took months for the yellow one to sell and a long time for Stu's to sell which seems in itself madness when such a nice car is on offer? which backs up the theory that people want the later ones.

Rotten/project = £1000 - £2500

Good condition = £4000 - £6000

Very good = £7000 - £9000

Mint condition = £10,000 - £12,000

C series (GT/E) - very sought after and seem to get snapped up quickly, people seem to want these due to the more modern look on the inside and outside. I also think that the rally scene has helped this particular era of Manta out too on the popularity front, the younger generation really like these too as they seem to just have that retro feel but still don't look really old (no chrome and Recaro seats seem to be the pull). But Exclusives still nudge the prices that bit more with the 'special Irmscher bits'

Rotten/project = £1000 - £3000

Good condition = £5000 - £7000

Very good = £8000 - £10,000

Mint = £11,000 - £14,000

Exclusive GT/E Manta's  - The one to have on your hands, people seem to go that little bit more nuts over an Exclusive than a GTE (albeit not much more). These must hit the button with rally fans due to the same lights and spoilers as the 400's. These also seem to attract the younger generation and are always the ones people seem to remember more. Also this kind of era (the C series models) we find a lot are buying memories "my dad had one of these when I was a kid" - so the people in their 40s/50s with some cash in the bank seem to want to go a buy back a bit of their nostalgia. 

Rotten/project - £1500-£3000

Good condition = £6000 - £8000

Very good = £9000 - £11,000

Mint = £12,000 - £15,000

As mentioned before, its a basic guide and not done to upset or offend anybody. I would be interested to hear what people think.

Edited December 19, 2022 by ®evo03

[Jonathan Pounsett]

3 hours ago, Jessopia74 said:

So you had no communication with them about cancellation before this letter? 😬

No. And the “attached correspondence” wasn’t attached. 
 

In future when I’m asked “have you ever had insurance cancelled” I will have to say yes 🙁

[BarryD89]

2 hours ago, ®evo03 said:

The rough estimates below are for complete coupes, hatchbacks where applicable you can knock at least 30-40% off the price. If the spec of car is something like a GT/J, 1.8 etc you can knock 20% off the 'top spec' ones.

Ouch, I know the 1.8 hatchback is considered the poor relation but 50% cheaper than an equivalent 2.0 Coupe seems a bit of a harsh guideline.  Probably realistic though. 

[Jessopia74]

5 hours ago, ®evo03 said:

Be a nice fitting tribute to name it after him 👊

That Danny fella, had a very good go at it, makes sense to me, may need slight adjustment ?  Thanks Danny 👍 he knew his stuff 👍

Going off the A series thread in the Ebay section I thought I would start a thread about pricing.

Manta prices are on the up and as stated before on this forum, some are rising faster than others. Keeping the obvious and special editions to one side, this is a basic overview of where I and a few others who have been restoring and dealing with a lot of cars for many years see prices (this is purely going off actual sales etc). £30,000 for a B restored series coupe is madness, whoever valued that also isn't helping the market values & with respect its purely - bonkers. 

Why and where magazines get their numbers from I have no idea as they do not match up with cars that have actually sold and or been advertised? 

The below is a very basic look at prices and specs, highly modified models are a different beast but not always more desirable and original/standard always seem to sell faster. The rough estimates below are for complete coupes, hatchbacks where applicable you can knock at least 30-40% off the price. If the spec of car is something like a GT/J, 1.8 etc you can knock 20% off the 'top spec' ones.

A series Mantas - these are not as sought after as the other cars (which is a bit of a surprise), I think this is due to the fact of how rare they are and they seem to be a bit of a forgotten gem of this era and often overlooked. They are starting to rise price wise though but not as much as they deserve with people hunting for them more year on year, this should start to see demand rise meaning prices should follow. 

Rotten/project = £1000 - £2500

Good condition = £4000 - £6000

Very Good condition £6000 - £8000

Mint condition (show standard) = £8000 - £10,000

B series Mantas - these are starting to rise price wise but as mentioned before they were slow for a long time, but getting noticed now and seems a similar story to the A series. Most (not all) people who buy or enquire about them always say they are going to modify them (basically make it look like a later one) which is a shame as if that is the case.......buy a later one. The B series take an age to sell compared to the later ones (that goes for parts too really) it took months for the yellow one to sell and a long time for Stu's to sell which seems in itself madness when such a nice car is on offer? which backs up the theory that people want the later ones.

Rotten/project = £1000 - £2500

Good condition = £4000 - £6000

Very good = £7000 - £9000

Mint condition = £10,000 - £12,000

C series (GT/E) - very sought after and seem to get snapped up quickly, people seem to want these due to the more modern look on the inside and outside. I also think that the rally scene has helped this particular era of Manta out too on the popularity front, the younger generation really like these too as they seem to just have that retro feel but still don't look really old (no chrome and Recaro seats seem to be the pull). But Exclusives still nudge the prices that bit more with the 'special Irmscher bits'

Rotten/project = £1000 - £3000

Good condition = £5000 - £7000

Very good = £8000 - £10,000

Mint = £11,000 - £14,000

Exclusive GT/E Manta's  - The one to have on your hands, people seem to go that little bit more nuts over an Exclusive than a GTE (albeit not much more). These must hit the button with rally fans due to the same lights and spoilers as the 400's. These also seem to attract the younger generation and are always the ones people seem to remember more. Also this kind of era (the C series models) we find a lot are buying memories "my dad had one of these when I was a kid" - so the people in their 40s/50s with some cash in the bank seem to want to go a buy back a bit of their nostalgia. 

Rotten/project - £1500-£3000

Good condition = £6000 - £8000

Very good = £9000 - £11,000

Mint = £12,000 - £15,000

As mentioned before, its a basic guide and not done to upset or offend anybody. I would be interested to hear what people think.

Add 20% . 

[Jonathan Pounsett]

On 18/12/2022 at 09:54, Sutty2006 said:

I think it depends on the category of write off doesn’t it? If you had a minor dent, that’s easy to fix. But say a car with a twisted subframe and bent floor would need the proper structural check. I could be wrong, things may have changed now. 

It does - Category X, N & S only.

[Sutty2006]

20 hours ago, Jonathan Pounsett said:

No. And the “attached correspondence” wasn’t attached. 
 

In future when I’m asked “have you ever had insurance cancelled” I will have to say yes 🙁

I’d be ringing them for answers. Give them some grief just before Xmas. If they can’t give you a reasonable excuse for cancelling then report it to trading standards? 

[CVI]

I think the subject of values etc should be the topic for mine and Paul's next coffee.

 

Insurance advice, part of my agreement with the club was to act in the interest of all club members, regardless of whether they are insured with CVI. More often than not, issues can be resolved and when it comes to repairs/ write off's, I have quite an extension network of friends in the industry/ engineers to refer to.

I just want to see the cars enjoyed, so please feel free to drop me a message if I can help.

[DAN@ADRIAN FLUX]

On 17/12/2022 at 20:05, Kal001 said:

I had similar issues with Performance Direct who after initially agreeing to look at an agreed value , valued my car “ at market value” - my question would be - what is market value for a classic ?? 

In the end I left them and got an agreed valuation through Adrian Flux ( even though they won’t insure my BMW at a sensible price ). 
 

Hi.

Glad we could help out with your agreed value but sorry we could help with the BMW.

Regards,

Dan.

[chrisb]

On 19/12/2022 at 19:21, ®evo03 said:

Be a nice fitting tribute to name it after him 👊

That Danny fella, had a very good go at it, makes sense to me, may need slight adjustment ?  Thanks Danny 👍 he knew his stuff 👍

Going off the A series thread in the Ebay section I thought I would start a thread about pricing.

Manta prices are on the up and as stated before on this forum, some are rising faster than others. Keeping the obvious and special editions to one side, this is a basic overview of where I and a few others who have been restoring and dealing with a lot of cars for many years see prices (this is purely going off actual sales etc). £30,000 for a B restored series coupe is madness, whoever valued that also isn't helping the market values & with respect its purely - bonkers. 

Why and where magazines get their numbers from I have no idea as they do not match up with cars that have actually sold and or been advertised? 

The below is a very basic look at prices and specs, highly modified models are a different beast but not always more desirable and original/standard always seem to sell faster. The rough estimates below are for complete coupes, hatchbacks where applicable you can knock at least 30-40% off the price. If the spec of car is something like a GT/J, 1.8 etc you can knock 20% off the 'top spec' ones.

A series Mantas - these are not as sought after as the other cars (which is a bit of a surprise), I think this is due to the fact of how rare they are and they seem to be a bit of a forgotten gem of this era and often overlooked. They are starting to rise price wise though but not as much as they deserve with people hunting for them more year on year, this should start to see demand rise meaning prices should follow. 

Rotten/project = £1000 - £2500

Good condition = £4000 - £6000

Very Good condition £6000 - £8000

Mint condition (show standard) = £8000 - £10,000

B series Mantas - these are starting to rise price wise but as mentioned before they were slow for a long time, but getting noticed now and seems a similar story to the A series. Most (not all) people who buy or enquire about them always say they are going to modify them (basically make it look like a later one) which is a shame as if that is the case.......buy a later one. The B series take an age to sell compared to the later ones (that goes for parts too really) it took months for the yellow one to sell and a long time for Stu's to sell which seems in itself madness when such a nice car is on offer? which backs up the theory that people want the later ones.

Rotten/project = £1000 - £2500

Good condition = £4000 - £6000

Very good = £7000 - £9000

Mint condition = £10,000 - £12,000

C series (GT/E) - very sought after and seem to get snapped up quickly, people seem to want these due to the more modern look on the inside and outside. I also think that the rally scene has helped this particular era of Manta out too on the popularity front, the younger generation really like these too as they seem to just have that retro feel but still don't look really old (no chrome and Recaro seats seem to be the pull). But Exclusives still nudge the prices that bit more with the 'special Irmscher bits'

Rotten/project = £1000 - £3000

Good condition = £5000 - £7000

Very good = £8000 - £10,000

Mint = £11,000 - £14,000

Exclusive GT/E Manta's  - The one to have on your hands, people seem to go that little bit more nuts over an Exclusive than a GTE (albeit not much more). These must hit the button with rally fans due to the same lights and spoilers as the 400's. These also seem to attract the younger generation and are always the ones people seem to remember more. Also this kind of era (the C series models) we find a lot are buying memories "my dad had one of these when I was a kid" - so the people in their 40s/50s with some cash in the bank seem to want to go a buy back a bit of their nostalgia. 

Rotten/project - £1500-£3000

Good condition = £6000 - £8000

Very good = £9000 - £11,000

Mint = £12,000 - £15,000

As mentioned before, its a basic guide and not done to upset or offend anybody. I would be interested to hear what people think.

I honestly think prices are a little higher than you have stated going on recent experience, My old Exclusive coupe is a well known car to the club E100 OMM and that has just sold for a figure well in the 20s, I wont disclose the exact amount as its not fair to the buyer,

Also ive just pulled a non running 1985 GTE coupe out of a 12 year slumber in a garage with  65k on the clock and a long term owner since 1988 and had to give 13k for it. He was inundated with offers and people were trying to send him the full asking price without viewing. In fact i found out after i bought it that another club member had offered 12k for it and i had outbid him. I didnt know this at the time.

 

[®evo03]

Yeh, did say it's outdated, needs updated. 

Any volunteers?