Joe Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 There's a bit more to it than that Ian but it's so long since I did my HNC that I simply can't remember the details now. Several of the forming processes you mentioned refine the grain structure of the metal, thereby strengthening it. Welding it makes it revert around the weld boundary to an as-cast structure which can lead to weaknesses. Then there's the effect welding can have on any previous heat treatment and also on the composition of the material (remember steel is an alloy). It can also set up stresses which may eventually lead to failure. I'm sure it can be done, but it needs to be done in full knowledge of the effects it will have and the use to which the welded parts will be put. Cheers, Joe. Please log into this site from the Home page folks. It helps to keep it as the first Manta site listed on Google. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opel2000 Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 As Joe says [thumbs] [thumbs] Be glad when the forum changes so that we can have better smilies '0' posts to our names but better smilies [][][] he he Back to steel, being an engraver you get a more intimate knowledge of materials than a lot of other trades would as you get a feel for the way certain materials behave and cut, and likewise with welding too, I can see and feel the difference between welding 304 stainless to 316 stainless. Joes post is spot on, certain steels where developed to do certain things and to try adapting them may well be possible but may also lead to a weakness somewhere, all that can be done is to ensure the weakness is going to be above the strength required. Which it can often be. Shiny bits http://www.customsolutions.me.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANTAMAN Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 I know people have 'home welded' steel tube/box to cast steel,they do it all the time in Autograss Racing When they build their single seat specials they use the drive hub assembly off a car and weld on forward facing swing arms to create the rear suspension (unusual design but digs in to give traction on dirt)these stand upto the rough treatment dished out by the loose surface tracks they race on. I've got piles of all sorts of Manta parts,i might even have something you need! surplus parts bought,whole cars considerd. M/B 07947 640505 OMOC Member number 2658F Ian Virco,area rep,Beds Herts and North Bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opel2000 Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Ah yes mate.......... BUT There are people that build grass track cars well and there are people that build them that break. Take for example this customer of mine and a pic of some of the work I done for him. 10.9 Grade steel sprocket cups to take the drive off of the sprockets on the twin Aprila V twin engines in the back of this car, these were then welded onto driveshafts which in turn take a chain drive forward to the main wheel driveshafts. Quite an engineering feat this chap is doing, rather than bodging something up that is going to break this has all got to be done properly to take the 300BHP from the 65kg engines in a 50Kg shell And yes it is a Fiat 126[][][] Sorry for thread Hi-jack Hotrodder [] Shiny bits http://www.customsolutions.me.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h0tr0dder_uk Posted May 18, 2007 Author Share Posted May 18, 2007 I can appreciate that its not as straight forward as just migging the two together, but my question on another website was could it be done. Some said no, some said yes and others said buy new struts (which is £££s). My reasoning was that it had calipers welded on it that had laster for 15 years on a race car so must be strong enough for the job. I am due to do a professional tig welding course next week so I mentioned it to the tutor and he said it shouldn't be a problem. I posted this on the website and next thing you know am accused of wasting peoples time as "why ask for advice if you not going to listen to people". I said that there are lots of people on the internet that offer advice and I have no way of really knowing if they are qualified to advise me! I will see what the tutor says and if need be purchase new struts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opel2000 Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Hmmm I could quite possibly be wrong about being able to weld to cast steel. But I will stand by what I said that it could be quite possible but will lose some of the inherent strength of the base material. Bur losing some of the strength of the base material may still prove more than strong enough for your application. Someone on here once worked out that a 10mm 10.9 bolt had enough strength to hold the weight of a Manta, but no-one would ever use a bolt of that size to take that amount of weight, everything always gets over engineered. So on that train of thought you will always get the precise type people that will say "NO don't do it" if you get my drift. Unfortunately i've never tried welding to cast steel so I can't personally say anything emphatically. But I'm only going on what i know. Oh and ignore the post above this, that was just to show off a bit and to wind Mantaman up [][][] Shiny bits http://www.customsolutions.me.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h0tr0dder_uk Posted May 27, 2007 Author Share Posted May 27, 2007 Well - I did my four day tig welding course and it was fantastic. Get my welder next week so will start making some fancy stuff with it. The guy that did the course welded my brake caliper brackets onto my struts for me and I think he did a stunning job. (note the wrong size bolt as I haven't got the right ones at the moment). Heres his ace welding and here the finished article (still need painting) - I think they should stop the car a treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANTAMAN Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Clive,you hav'nt wound me! i'm impressed by the grass car but i think things are now realy going mad in grass track racing. Years ago you took a saloon and put a 1 Litre Bike engine in the back,then they used bigger saloons so as they could put two 1 Litre + bikes engines in,then they reasoned if they used the smallest car they could find they'd only need one bike engine,now i see you get the smallest car you can find and put TWO 1 Litre bike engines in,MAD! I dont think the thread has been hi-jacked,its a justified illustration of the point being made. I've got piles of all sorts of Manta parts,i might even have something you need! surplus parts bought,whole cars considerd. M/B 07947 640505 OMOC Member number 2658F Ian Virco,area rep,Beds Herts and North Bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opel2000 Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Damn it Ian, I'll have to try harder [][][][] OFF TOPIC but that is so true about grass track racing, many paople now taking it to a new level. Been meaning to get over to a Leics meet, as there is a bloke there who cut a hole in a Jag supercharger, and bolted it to the top of a Rover V8 and fitted it into his grass track car. Back on topic. Tell you what HotRodder, if anyone ever had any welding done for themselves that would be exactly what you would want to see (in your pics) as the end result. Personally on the subject of TIG Welding I find it absolutely brilliant for certain jobs, but for other work I simply cannot substitute the MIG, still find the MIG to be an excellent all rounder. But the TIG can produce that 5hit hot finish where it is needed. Apologies if you have mentioned this earlier in the topic hotrodder, but what hubs, discs and calipers have you gone for there? Not intending to copy just curious as to what you have opted for. Shiny bits http://www.customsolutions.me.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h0tr0dder_uk Posted May 29, 2007 Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 The struts are from a capri 2.8. it looks like it has had the original hubs redrilled to make it 5 stud chevy pattern. I had the hubs machined and fitted a pair of modified ford galaxy front discs and then had some brackets made up that fitted ford granada scorpio calipers to them. I must admit that I stole the idea from a website about capris [:0] http://www.zyworld.com/caprisport/1_brakes.htm I figured it would be better to get all the brakes from the same model and if it can stop a tank of a granada it should do the trick for me. I will be fitting the granada scorpio rear calipers to the back axle and using the granada handbrake. I couldn't use the orignal master cylinder and servo as it was some fancy shmancy pump system (used for the abs) so i used a sierra servo attached to a brand new transit master cylinder (same bore size as the granada) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h0tr0dder_uk Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 Right - now I've finished doing jobs on my A series its time to do some serious work on this one. Next job is to mount the seats and fit the harnesses. Then fit the rear discs and calipers and fit the wheel tubs. Nicked this link off the nsra site but thought it would be worth sharing. This site creates a cutting guide for fitting 2 tubes together (like roll cages). Simply input your diameter, thickness and the angle of join and print off the template. http://www.metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opel2000 Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Wow, could have used that little program a while back when building up the headers for my V8, that is an absolutely brilliant little program Shiny bits http://www.customsolutions.me.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h0tr0dder_uk Posted June 27, 2007 Author Share Posted June 27, 2007 Finally some pregress on this one. I finally got the passenger side wing on and welded the arch in and have aligned the whole front end. Now i'm in the process of welding extra tubing into the cage in order to strengthen it and to provide a place for the harnesses to attach to. I've also got my rears discs back. I lent them to Andy Frost (worlds fastest street car - vauxhall victor). One of his broke during qualifying a few weeks ago and I had just got mine back from the machine shop so he borrowed them and managed to make eliminations the next day. Only problem is that I'm on a course in Leeds next week so won't be able to work on my car at all. I've also been looking at chassis web sites and have found a company that will sell a complete tube chassis kit (that you weld together) for an opel gt (amongst other cars) for about £500 - mmm tempting!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnj Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Hi H0tr0dder_uk U mentioned a website for chassis, any chance you could post the link to it ? Probably gettin a bit carried away but the thought of building a car from the chassis up sounds tempting Jon OMOC 5995 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h0tr0dder_uk Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 sure - have a look here https://www.cachassisworks.com/iwwidb.p ... tem_submit if you want email me and i can put you in touch with a guy that will ship it to the uk for a very good price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h0tr0dder_uk Posted July 21, 2007 Author Share Posted July 21, 2007 its about time i updated this topic so here goes. I got my mercedes discs fitted to the ford 9" axle and am awaiting the caliper brackets that I have drawn up. I have also fitted the seats and am now going to fit the harness mount points And my favourite part of all I have fitted my shiney new wheels that I imported from the states[] pass me the kleenex (ahem) I now also have both yokes for the propshaft so I can get that made and once the rear calipers are fitted I will start to fit the rear wheel arches, floor etc Its nice to finally see some progress again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h0tr0dder_uk Posted July 22, 2007 Author Share Posted July 22, 2007 finally got the car back on its wheels and got it out into daylight. nice and low eh? Looks rought at the moment but its only mocked up. still gotta be shot blasted and then have all the panels done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickappy Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 simply awesome[] f`kin awesome. love the pic from above. omoc member 5918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Fish Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 yeah, that is bloody ace to be fair, what a beast![:0] [^][^][^][^][] South Wales Rep OMOC 5643 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h0tr0dder_uk Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 OK - its about time I did an update. I haven't done anything on it for the last 2 months as I've been crewing on my friends outlaw anglia van. Finally the race season is over so its back in the garage. I've finished my additional bars to the rollcage Got the rear discs and calipers fitted and just started to make the templates for the wheel tubs, boot floor etc Lets hope its not another few months before I update it again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h0tr0dder_uk Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 Update - finally got the rear wheel tubs (arches) fitted. One is fully welded and other tacked in at the moment. Next job is to fit the boot floor and other panels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pma Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Just a quick question H/R.Could you not find any WIDER wheels,bloody'ell those are serious wheels,lets hope you never get a puncture mate,you'll need a forklift to change it!! Btw,thats going to be mind blowing. Paul Ansell omoc 5963 (Erdington Birmingham) 10 year manta project - NEARLY DONE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h0tr0dder_uk Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 I suppose I could fit a 400 kit - that would allow me to put some wider rims on it [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 looking the part thats going to be a rocket ship, not good for courting though [] http://www.mantamagic.com OMOC N,Ireland Rep id="blue"> OMOC 5706 Please dont shoot me it,s only an opinion not a demand Email robbie @ mantamagic.com (without the spaces) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shug Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 No much room in the boot for the weekly shop tho, is there? [] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ OMOC #5988 hmackay at opel-manta.com I hae a few guid reasons for drinkin’ And yin juist entered ma heid If a man canna’ drink while he’s livin’ Hoo the Hell can he drink when he’s deid! There is no word in Gaelic that can possibly convey the same level of urgency as the spanish word mañana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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