opelscott22 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Can anyone help me with swapping the internals over in the getrag boxes? Ive got an 1800 box with knackered internals and a 2ltr box with good ones. I want to swap them over and I cant seem to get the casings split. Any Ideas? scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Assuming you have undone the bolts around the end casing there is the odd one in the side (off side?) and remove the trumpet around the input shaft (3 bolts) and the circlip on the input shaft.......... Actually don't trust my memory get on ebay and pick up a haynes manual for a few pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutts Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 absolutley correct mantadoc your memory serves you well jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hmmm if you know it through a wall you know it too well. Last and only time I did this was '95, maybe '96 at latest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANTAMAN Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Plus i think you need to warm the front casing to expanded it enough to allow the bearing to come out (or some such thing!) i seem to remember the suggestion of putting the end of the gearbox in hot water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I stripped a GTE box today. Its very tricky and will be hard to put back together. My advice is do not try it unless you have a spotless bench, a good workshop manual (better than haynes) and have experiance with gearboxes. I have taken many other boxes apart and have never seen anything so over engineered before, there are loads of pins to remove, half a dozen bearings and springs to go ping and even then you do need to sit the ass of the box case in boiling hot water to even stand a chance of getting the gear assembly out of the case. If you have enough money give it to a pro to do, it will save time, hassle and you get a guarantee the box will work when it goes back together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Stripping one is complex, just changing the gears from one casing to another is a simple task as everything hangs on that back plate so shouldn't hold too much fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Paul, did you find that the main shaft was shimmed at one end?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 No, I did not. I was expecting shims well. The worst bit about removing the gears on the shaft is that you have to remove all the locking ball bearings so the shift shaft come away, these are very small and WILL vanish in the sludge in the turkey roasting tray (if you used a turkey roasting tray) I lost a couple until i found them with a magnet. As for heating the end of the box up in boiling water, well, you have to do that or it will not come apart. I tried but was in danger of damaging it all so did as i was told by the workshop manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Done two and never gave them a hot bath, then again probably didn't read all the instructions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Well i beat the output end with my lead shot mallet till i was blue in the face and the assembly did not shift. warmed it through like the GM book says and it literally popped out unhindered. There are 5 ballbearings that must be removed before the shafts will move. a large spring at the back and then a few pins to punch out from the selectors themselves. Since this topic was about how the OP cannot get the casings split and I did it yesterday I am inclined to suggest he listens to me, He either expects hassles putting it all back together if he is not experienced with the innards of a gearbox or he saves time and pays a transmission company to do it. the chances of refitting all the parts in the right order on your first attempt is slim to say the least. It does not just pop back in the case, its all got to be spot on or the ball locks will not allow you to select gears or will allow selection of more than one at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I'd suggest he listens to you too! Just my point was if not dissasembling the cluster off the back plate it's really no harder than say a head gasket. Can't / couldn't remember if there were any detant(?) balls and springs in the side to pull to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 If you leave the rear cluster on you run a real risk of not getting the shims right if it has them, I found none but thats not to say others do not. Also bear in mind that there are different sizes of main shaft bearings listed in the GM parts list, to get like for like at both ends might be pushing it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I've not found any shims either on two boxes, maybe using a smear of sealer and no gasket on the back plate makes the fit more constant like doing away with gaskets on the later oil pumps.... actually the oil pump housings / rotors had two shaft / pin sizes, one very rarely used. Most people don't have your appreciation of the finer points, and I consider the gears a "sealed unit" as the expense, effort and benefit of a proper rebuild doesn't, to me, out weigh the cost. Running gear is consumables to me like ink cartridges. Full throttle gear changes on the valve bounce rev limiter doesn't favour synchromesh life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 From what i have read i agree with you Paul. The manuals i have read always suggested there would be shims? I will let you know what i find when i get around to stripping my gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmanta Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I've not found any shims either on two boxes, maybe using a smear of sealer and no gasket on the back plate makes the fit more constant Very interesting point that, The rebuild bearing kit I am about to buy has a gasket to go between the two halves, I will not be using the gasket provided because I dont trust that it wont make a difference to the dimensions inside the box when it all goes back together. I view ALL parts of the Manta/Ascona as fair game, someone made it once so I can remake it again. That is true for parts that are out of production too, put simply if i cannot get new synchros for this box I will be talking to Getrag to see if they were the same as any other cars of the era, BMW used Getrag at the time and their boxes look the same apart from the bellhousings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutts Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 bmw box is same inside as the 1.8=2.0 start saving now I had my gearbox rebuilt with new bearings at a gearbox specialist cost was £300 with all new bearings and gaskets, when i put it back in it whined like a straight cut box in first and second gear. took it for him to drive, took it out again (25 mins i do this regular) he said he could not guarantee how good gears are themselves as they could of done loads of miles but looked after, or low miles wrong oil or no oil and be bo**ocks. my next route is a jag getrag box and put a 1.8 bellhousing conversion on it so no more chewed gears due to power through gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlocke666 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 my next route is a jag getrag box and put a 1.8 bellhousing conversion on it so no more chewed gears due to power through gearbox. Please, tell me more about this jag box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutts Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Please, tell me more about this jag box! just get a jaguar xj6 getrag box off ebay, prop end also if posible. take off jaguar bell housing cut a 1.8 bell housing off gearbox, alloy weld it to cut down jaguar bellhousing thus giving you a 1.8 bell housing conversion bolt it up use jaguar clutch plate with 16v cover. or buy a 16v to ford box bell housing conversion and adapt it to fit jaguar box. you then have a box that will take 500lbs of torque and bhp is your limit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlocke666 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 just get a jaguar xj6 getrag box off ebay, prop end also if posible. take off jaguar bell housing cut a 1.8 bell housing off gearbox, alloy weld it to cut down jaguar bellhousing thus giving you a 1.8 bell housing conversion bolt it up use jaguar clutch plate with 16v cover. or buy a 16v to ford box bell housing conversion and adapt it to fit jaguar box. you then have a box that will take 500lbs of torque and bhp is your limit Sounds easy! didnt really want to go down this route, surely theres a lot to go wrong with that with stuff not lining up correctly? It has got me thinking though. can you use the same spiggot bearing as with the XE? I certainly wouldnt be cutting up a 1.8 box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutts Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Sounds easy! didnt really want to go down this route, surely theres a lot to go wrong with that with stuff not lining up correctly? It has got me thinking though. can you use the same spiggot bearing as with the XE? I certainly wouldnt be cutting up a 1.8 box. you put the cut down bellhousing or 16v to ford bellhousing on to engine with clutch fitted, slide the box up and mark or tack weld in place, spigot can be made with a bronze insert, use copper grease like they used to in the good old days. error is made if not carefull when fitting together before welding. a bellhousing like this sold on ebay not long ago (dec 08) for £70 (yes it was first done in ireland) 1.8 box easier to do, i have a few with duff internals, look on german ebay for 1.8 4 speed bellhousing that is the perfect solution no welding, no fiddling just bolt on and play. best thing is jag box same/similar to the over priced 265 monza box. its the crossmember fitting that different but nothing too hard to sort. its the old thing money buys anything 265 and bellhousing conversion done for you, but a bit of engineering and time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16VManta Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I've cut down the 18s box to make a bellhousing for the 265. Haven't got there yet, but not far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barracuda Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Hi All I'm new to the forum and hope you might be able to offer me some advice? I am currently rebuilding a Getrag 240 for a friend and I need a new set of syncro rings to finish the job. Where can I find some? I have found rebuild kits at MainTrain.co.uk but am struggling with the syncro's. Any leads, much appreciated. Regards Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16VManta Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Some of the E30 BMW's used the same series of gearbox. I think it was the 4 cylinder engined cars. Have a look at Metric Mechanic in the States for more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barracuda Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Excellent link, thank you very much. I have sent them an email just waiting for a reply now. Regards Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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