Engine Wont Start

[Shug]

Trying to fire up my 2.2 for the first time but it's decided to try and provoke me into beating it with a hammer!

Turns over fine. Petrol is getting into cylinders and I do get a spark. Timing would seem to be the obvious thing and I've done it as per Haynes instructions. No 1 cylinder to tdc on compression stroke (that is the one at timing chain side with 1 stamped on head, right?) and rotor arm pointing to no 1 plug lead. Battery is fully charged.

This really is doing my head in so any advice welcome!

[Shug]

Actually scrap that bit about the spark. Devious b****** that my car appears to be was only pretending. Get a spark once then no more. Think it's time to buy a new branded coil rather than nos no mark s****.

[Julian]

Actually scrap that bit about the spark. Devious b****** that my car appears to be was only pretending. Get a spark once then no more. Think it's time to buy a new branded coil rather than nos no mark s****.

Dodgy contact set could be your problem, unless you are on electronic that is.

[Mantaray80]

I'm having exactly the same problem.....given up for the time being!!

[Shug]

Onto suspecting the ignition module now. New coil changed nothing. Put my meter onto things (even tho I don;t really know how to properly use one ) and the signal from the distributor definately changes. Ignition module does work in so far as it protects the coil when ignition is left on, but I'm still not getting a spark. Was a cheap 'mototronic' module off ebay. Mayube I need to try get my hands on an original.

The distributor has been fully refurbished by H&H, the coil is an MSD one (the intermotor one I had didnae work either, and neither did the scabby 30 year old one I had lying around) and its all wired as per haynes diagram, so surely its the ignition module, right?

[paulmanta]

2.2 module should have 6 pins in it not 7, (the GTE 2litre has 7) Also the wiring on the 4 pin plug between the car and injection loom has to be spot on or it will cause trouble.

I don't have my book of words here at home but It has the wire positions and colours in it.

have you an earth off the back of the inlet maifold and is the engine block to battery or body earth good ?

its all wired as per haynes diagram, so surely its the ignition module, right?

Get a copy of the Radio times, its about as accurate for wiring a Manta.

[Shug]

No injection on this car. Running (or will be! ) bike carbs so ignition is separate from rest. Soundslike I have the wrong module if I have a pin too many ( damn eBay!) annoying Haynes shows 7 pins (and only using 6) when it's supposed to be 6!

I have an earth cable from the engine straight to battery. Will post up wiring pic I used when I get to a pc (usin phone just now) but basically it's the 3 wires from distributor, one to earth, one from ignition/coil positive and one to coil negative.

Was on the verge of getting distributor off old engine and using points!

Cheers for your help!

[Exclusive Opel]

Don't know if these two links are helpful but you can use them to cross reference as the module fits other cars, if you need to search for another:

Link

Link

[Shug]

Heres how its wired up:

[cam.in.head]

this all depends on wether you are using a full 2.2 set up.normally the injection links to the ignition system via an additional spark advance control box & a different ignition coil control unit.(5 wire)the unit is coloured white,marked 0227100124.but if you are not using injection or the electronic spark advance unit then you will need to use a normal 2 litre gte type ignition control unit.black colour 1227022008.WITH THE CORRECT 6 WIRE GTE WIRING.as shown in post above. im pretty sure that the standard gte set up will not work if plugged into a 2.2 control unit.the only other consideration after this is if a gte distributor will work correctly regarding advance angles etc. if you used a 2.2 one it doesnt have any mechanical advance in it.(hence the additional control unit when used in carltons.) see haynes book. carlton 83-86 page 231 and page 235 if in doubt

ps coils are the same..2 litre or 2.2.or 2.5/3.0 for that matter

[Shug]

Its a carlton distributor (with vacuum advance) with no injection so I need the manta gte one? Hard to know what the module is for but I was told it's a Carlton one. No serial number, just 2921 stamped on it.

[cam.in.head]

its only the carlton(and senator `a` for that matter )that had the additional advance control unit so only they had the different ignition amplifier unit. you need the much more common 6 wire type used on manta 1.8 & gte plus most mk2 early 1.6 cavaliers,astras,belmonts etc.make sure you have 6 connectors in your plug as in the diagram shown further back on this thread.the 2.2 distributor WILL work but because it only has a vacuum advance & not an internal mechanical speed relative one it may make the car not respond too well.a gte one has both mechanical & vacuum advance but correct for a 2 litre so not sure how this will act realy on a 2.2 but someone on here must have done this & may come on to suggest the best route to go.,id suggest check your plug,get the correct ignition unit & try it with the distributor you have first .at least this will get it running.(assuming the distributor pick up isnt actually faulty !!

[lamchop77]

Its a carlton distributor (with vacuum advance) with no injection so I need the manta gte one? Hard to know what the module is for but I was told it's a Carlton one. No serial number, just 2921 stamped on it.

Exactly what do you have? I used the std dizzy, JHFU4 stamped on it linked to the std amplifier. I have a carlton 2.2 set up which seems to be different to what other people on here have posted. Dizzy has JHU4 stamped on it.

The std set up worked fine on my 2.2 race motor running 48's.

HTH

Chris

[Shug]

I'd need to double check but pretty sure it's a jhu4 as well.

[cam.in.head]

CODE FOR THE BOSCH DISTRIBUTORS IS .....H DENOTES ELECTRONIC IGNITION RATHER THAN POINTS ....F DENOTES MECHANICAL ADVANCE (WEIGHTS).......SO A 2 LITRE ONE WILL BE JHFU4.(2 TYPES CARB 0237020042,,INJECTION 0237020040)..A 2.2 WILL BE JHU4.....0237507002..............................THE CORRECT MODULE IS BOSCH 1227022008 FOR A 2 LITRE GTE SET UP (7PIN UNIT,6 USED)

so if yours is a jhu4 its for a 2.2 but should run via the extra control box or you wont have any speed related advance. this wont stop your engine starting thou so you need to get that sorted first. have you checked what module & plug is on your coil.

[cam.in.head]

are you running now ??

[Shug]

Got new control unit, plugged it in all excited.

Turned the key.....

Nae difference, no spark. New set of ignition leads on way after end fell off coil to distributor lead when I tried to remove it to test that as well. I'm thinking thats no a good sign.....

[E21-Mark]

I was going to suggest you check your leads.

I had a similar problem on my 323i. I changed the coil, TPS and various other bits and pieces but no change. Finally, a flat battery meant calling the RAC for a jump and a fresh pair of eyes. At first he couldn't find anything either but just as we were going to give up we heard a tell-tale tick as one of the leads arc'd on a bonnet stay. We re-routed the lead and it burst into life! If only I had checked the simple stuff first. Motronic components are really sensitive to bad earths too. Anyway, I hope your new leads help.

[Shug]

New leads on and still won't start. Considering breaking the fucker for parts now.

[cam.in.head]

hi. bloody cold weather for tinkering but we cant stop it can we !! anyway just thought id give you a few things to try to see if it will help you. pity im in yorkshire. assuming all is wired up & plugged in.1. make sure that the negative wire from the ignition wiring is definately connected to earth properly.(brown wire ,usually bolts on with coil bracket to inner wing).2.check that with ignition on- the black wire to coil goes 12v (.pull back cover from long ignition amp plug & make sure the same black wire also goes live.)3.if you have another distributor (any type so long as its got the same wiring plug on it)connect this up & see what happens when you rotate it by hand.you should see a spark out of the big main ht lead from the coil.(hold near block).4.connect a 12v test lamp accross the coil outer terminals to make sure the coil is actually being operated.no light would be either a faulty distributor or faulty amplifier or faulty wiring. let us know what you find. im curious mate. cheers chris .

[Shug]

Cheers chris, your help is greatly appreciated!

I'm using an universal loom. I have the earth from ignition module connected direct to battery -.

Next bit confused me. With ignition off I seem to have 12v to each terminal on coil. With ignition on it's reading 0.06v

On turnover the - from distributor plug reads from 9 to 10 volts and the + reads from 3 to 5 volts (roughly)

I get no light off a bulb across coil terminals.

[2908642343]

Shug;

When checking the coil make sure the coil "bracket" is making a good contact to the inner wing. If it is not it does cause problem.

Paul N can explian in more detail.

John

[cam.in.head]

reffering back to the diagram a few posts back is how it should be wired. no way should there be any voltages there when ignition is not on. the ignition module (term 4) should only go live along with coil (term 15) when ignition is switched on (red lights .not starter)i would double check the wiring. do you not still have the original manta wiring loom for that bit? all self contained & wires straight up to coil,distributor & black wire to ignition switch.hey up well get this sorted mate. !!

keep reporting back. wel have this running today !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shug]

I must be using this meter wrong. Checked against fuel pump wire at fuse and got 12v with ignition off and 0.06 with it on, and it definately only runs with ignition on. Same with lights.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Shug

[cam.in.head]

wow.obviously i dont know what your meter is but basically i may have 3 sockets.if it does then you need your test leads into the one marked com for the black /neg lead. & the other red lead into the socket marked v ...the switch should be turned to read volts dc ( like an equal sign with one broken line) & suitable to read in the range of say 0-20volts..all measurements to be taken using the red lead & with the black lead to the car bodywork. if you try this to you battery + it should read approx 12.6volts.assuming your meter is kaput you could use a 12v test lamp. with ignition off coil 15 lead(black) should be zero.with it on it should be approx 12v.so should ignition unit term 4.

i await !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!