What Engine

[steel]

ive bought a rolling shell to restore and ime going to start looking for an engine and box original engines seem to be quite cheap and i like them for their simplicity but want some good power without having to spend big money on tuning redtop lumps seem popular what are your recomendations prefer not to chop the shell about to much if at all thanks

Edited March 2, 2011 by steel

[16valves-V-Turbo]

HI

Has to be Redtop for me , Either fit one straight in or Rebuild then fit if money allows. These engines were destined for the Manta and take some beating , early cos cast ones are more robust , Its just finding a good one 2nd hand i guess . For more fun add LSD

[steel]

is there a manta model i could get an lsd from or are we talking a complete rear axle change [sorry for dumbass questions] its all new to me there will be more i promise lol

[mantadoc]

Ecotec, available for pence.

Everyone will agree C20XE for outright power but if you want a standard engine, a fresher Ecotex should have more power than a 23 year old XE out of an Astra or GSI2000

[monzta]

is there a manta model i could get an lsd from or are we talking a complete rear axle change [sorry for dumbass questions] its all new to me there will be more i promise lol

Most Manta LSD´s are aftermarket, so theres no "special model" or such that you can be sure to find a LSD on. Not even all i200 and i240 has LSD. A good buy would be a Quaife LSD, but it costs.

Regarding engine choice you shouldnt be so afraid of the CIH cast iron original engines. They are as you say very very simple, they are cheap, and they are very reliable and cheap to increase power on. BUT you need to restore one as they are so used that they all need work.

Here´s a very good combo:

1,9 litre engine block (this is the best as it has better cooling).

1,6 litre crankshaft (only the bore is different from 1,6-2,0 engines)

2,2 or 2,4 head

ENEM camshaft

Solid lifters from a 1,6 engine or a tunershop

Lightened flywheel

New bearings

Overbore to 2,0 using 2,0 pistons

Set of 45 weber og dellorto´s

It seems like alot but as you search for theese parts you will find that you can do all of this for the same costs as a redtop engine. But you will have more power and a super sound. You will also have a cool old school engine in your car that kick ass and fit the cars style.

I am currently doing my first redtop conversion for a A series Manta, but have always used the old ironheads. They are extremly solid IF you make sure they never EVER overheat and lack oil. A rally style oilpan is a very good idea, as are a oil catch tank, and a electric fan for the cooling system. A oil cooler would also be worth considering.

Oh by the way the last one i build to theese specs ended up with 178bhp @ 6400rpm. I also had a Lumenition ignition system fitted and a 2,5 inch Gruppe A exhaust from Simons Exhausts. I did this unit 3 years ago and it is still running very nice as far as i know

Edited March 2, 2011 by monzta

[steel]

i may have the chance of a rover 3.5 ltre engine from a sd1 vitesse twin plenum are these worth considering? its very low mileage from my m8s grandads car garage kept, started regularly ect hes talking the price on a few pint and a curry tempting but not if its more hassle than its worth

[Kevin Abbott]

i may have the chance of a rover 3.5 ltre engine from a sd1 vitesse twin plenum are these worth considering? its very low mileage from my m8s grandads car garage kept, started regularly ect hes talking the price on a few pint and a curry tempting but not if its more hassle than its worth

V8 is a good engine but doesn't put out any more than an xe( torque is better) v8 need custom mounts and headers, manual box and is really really tight in the engine bay,lots of grief but sounds awesome.

Buy the v8 off your Grandad and sell it to a rodder to get the money for the xe

Go for the xe, even a used one will give 150 horse.

Join the club and get the full low down on fitting the xe or google search it, manta club did a full write up in the mag that was very good.

Parts, 1800 box, 1800 sump or modded one like the chevette one in parts for sale and loads of other small bits

Regards

Kev

[steel]

V8 is a good engine but doesn't put out any more than an xe( torque is better) v8 need custom mounts and headers, manual box and is really really tight in the engine bay,lots of grief but sounds awesome.

Buy the v8 off your Grandad and sell it to a rodder to get the money for the xe

Go for the xe, even a used one will give 150 horse.

Join the club and get the full low down on fitting the xe or google search it, manta club did a full write up in the mag that was very good.

Parts, 1800 box, 1800 sump or modded one like the chevette one in parts for sale and loads of other small bits

Regards

Kev

ime going to sign up to the club next week m8 ime impressed with the place in the short time ive been here,everybody has been friendly/helpfull and i will be spending a fair bit of time here asking stupid questions so a few quid a year is ok by me

[mantasrme]

When you say 'Good Power' how much is that you want from the engine?

Also what sort of budget are you planning for the engine instalation?

A standard Manta GT/e engine is rated at 110Bhp on injection and you can pick up a complete engine/injection/gearbox for around £100 - £150

The CIH engine responds well to a performance camshaft and if coupled to a ported big valve head and a setup on a rolling road you can see around 145bhp (thats what my last one had)

Of course finding performance bits in the UK can be very hard, although camshafts are available new.

A 16v c20xe (150bhp) or Ecotec (140bhp ish) will require a sump and gearbox that are currently selling for around £300 second hand (but maybe as much as £450!)

Add to that the base engine and a clutch, and exhaust manifold (£165new) and you'll be looking at over £1000 prety quickly (although can be done for less if you get the bargin price items)

The C20Let vauxhall 16v turbo will also fit but i would suggest you'll prob need to overhaul the engine/turbo before using it and the base engines aren't that cheap.

Other options are fairly broad but all take more work to fit than those above.

V8's have been done several times so there's plenty of info on them

C30se 3.0 24v from the carlton GSi fits (but its a bit on the heavy side) and not that easy or cheap to do

Cavalier SRi130 8v needs all the stuff a 16v does to fit it for less power and not much less cash

Cossie turbo has been done a couple of times (not cheap)

And the list goes on into Jap stuff and turbo this that and the other.

Personal opinion for a road car/toy is a c20xe everytime

[garymanc]

c20 xe or ecotech as there a lighter engine than the cih,the thing i like manta handles much better with the slight weight loss

[steel]

i was looking for 165-200bhp sort of figure n/a maybe ime being a bit optimistic and perhaps i need to drive a car fitted with an engine thats been mentioned above ive only driven standard 2.0 cars they were ok but not what ide call fast and this shell is being built into a 400 body kitted fast road car so needs the grunt to go with the looksbudget as cheap as possible wife kids blah blah but i have no time limit so can wait for bits to turn up at the right price

Edited March 3, 2011 by steel

[Kevin Abbott]

i was looking for 165-200bhp sort of figure n/a maybe ime being a bit optimistic and perhaps i need to drive a car fitted with an engine thats been mentioned above ive only driven standard 2.0 cars they were ok but not what ide call fast and this shell is being built into a 400 body kitted fast road car so needs the grunt to go with the looksbudget as cheap as possible wife kids blah blah but i have no time limit so can wait for bits to turn up at the right price

My 16v XE manta 170 bhp 0-60 around 6 seconds and got to 145 mph, used to be a beast.

Then i wanted faster so i'm fitting a C20let into one and a cosworth engine into the other

[steel]

nice ,, theres a few 2.9 cosworth lumps floating about i would imagine theyre about the same weight as a 2.0gte lump give or take a few lb

Edited March 3, 2011 by steel

[mantasrme]

For that sort of power a c20xe with a chip on injection or even on Carbs will be around the 170-180 mark and is nice and quick

Oh and have a look at Engine Weights Chart not sure how accurate it is but he's done a lot of work gathering the data

2.9 V6 Cologne 12v i think weighs 380lbs

C30ne / C30se is 395lbs

C20xe 237lbs

Calibra v6 245lbs

[Devil Fish]

I'm hoping my xe with throttle bodies will hit the magic 200bhp (well I'm hoping it'll hit a little higher than that )

You could always go for something completely different though... v6, saab, merc, bmw, or if you want to stick with vauxy how about the straight 6 from a senator etc (tis an awesome looking engine)?

Edited March 3, 2011 by Devil Fish

[lamchop77]

ive bought a rolling shell to restore and ime going to start looking for an engine and box original engines seem to be quite cheap and i like them for their simplicity but want some good power without having to spend big money on tuning redtop lumps seem popular what are your recomendations prefer not to chop the shell about to much if at all thanks

Everyone will give you a different answer as everyone has there preference.

I am a CIH man personally. Xe are a good motor with plenty of bits available at reasonable prices.

For CIH route and simplicity, Wossner/Wiseco/etc pistons to get the comp ratio up, ported head 45's minimum, 244 kent cam, light flywheel modded for xe nonpot clutch. Should put you well up to the 160/170 mark. Std injection system won't get to that level so if you want that you will need to uprate it.

For info look at highspeed racing in sweden and look on opeltuners on proboards2, also opel gt forum.

Check out Vagoszx11 2.7 cih on youtube to see what a normally aspirated cih can do.

For red top stuff plenty of guys on here know what there doin with them.

HTH

Chris

[monzta]

Everyone will give you a different answer as everyone has there preference.

I am a CIH man personally. Xe are a good motor with plenty of bits available at reasonable prices.

For CIH route and simplicity, Wossner/Wiseco/etc pistons to get the comp ratio up, ported head 45's minimum, 244 kent cam, light flywheel modded for xe nonpot clutch. Should put you well up to the 160/170 mark. Std injection system won't get to that level so if you want that you will need to uprate it.

For info look at highspeed racing in sweden and look on opeltuners on proboards2, also opel gt forum.

Check out Vagoszx11 2.7 cih on youtube to see what a normally aspirated cih can do.

For red top stuff plenty of guys on here know what there doin with them.

HTH

Chris

I agree with Chris.

If the preference is 170-200 bhp (preferebly 200 maybe) a CIH is absolutely the way to go. If you want 200+ bhp i would suggest a C20XE or LET anytime. The thing is that everything is being made for the CIH in Sweden and the crisis makes their money value quite bad, or good for you A ENEM camshaft (which is some of the best out there) cost around 160-200£.

If you want a C20XE to make 200bhp you will need to spend at least 5-600£ on it + the 1000£ it will cost you to buy a XE + get all the parts you need to fit it into RWD car (as mentioned oil pan, header etc can really set you back a couple of hundred £££)

A 180bhp CIH can be build for less than 1200£ and it will run a long long time if you look after it. (oil, water etc)., Theres even no need to go above 2,0...

Personally as Chris i would go with the CIH, it really is a great engine, and theres a reason its been around for so long

[steel]

so many responses for more modern engines and the original have to say i do like the idea of keeping the original but it being tuned to modern standards but thought it would cost daft money i suppose it will come down to what turns up at what price at the end of the day i have acces to a mandrel bender to bend stainless tube for a custom exhaust so not worried about that cant wait to get started ime collecting it next saturday

[steel]

ive decided its a v8 , have 1 lined up looking to get a rebuild kit from likes of rimmer bros can anybody that has fitted a rover 3.5lump post pics of your exhaust manifold i have access to a mandrelbender but would like to see what other have done

Edited March 13, 2011 by steel

[dynamytedan]

cav 130 sri on bike carbs should give 150bhp and still looks somewhat like a standard 1800 , very easy to fit all just bolts in ,

as already said after clutch £110 , exhaust manifold £100+ , custom inet £180 and carbs £100 , sump +pick up £150 , engine mounts £60ish plus the price of the engine £100-£500 could easly reach £1000 .

and you could probably go 16v for a couple of hundred more . seeing as you got the 400 arches i dont think sri130 will be savage enough for the look of the car but is possibly the best bang for buck.

good luck with the v8

Edited March 13, 2011 by dynamytedan

[steel]

thanks man,, its the v8 rumble that gets the hairs on the back of my neck sticking up looking at the rimmer bros site 3.9 conversion sounds good with lpg cnversion thrown in for longer trips

[opel2000]

Hi Steel.

Been a bit busy here today, but hoping my mail will be quite tomorrow evening, which will give me the chance to drag the piccies off of me trusty ol' laptop of the Exhaust i cobbled up for the V8 conversion I performed.

One of the main problems I found with the V8 was the tightness around the steering column and starter motor area. In fact the size of the original starter was a pain in the butt anyway, and ended up buying one of those tiny items from Rimmer Bros.

To get a decent flow from the exhaust meant a decent bore and a some sort of length where the primaries lead off from the head, I built a 4 into 2 into 1 each side and threw the pipes towards the front of the engine into a smooth flowing joiner which swept a single 2.5 pipe backwards, must say I was pretty pleased with the result.

The thing for me was that I had built the engine to a reasonable spec, and did not want it strangling by a crap exhaust system.

Got some pretty damn good piccies of this lot, as said earlier, I'll try and get them posted up tomorrow eve.

[steel]

thats great i look forward to the pics, thanks m8

[opel2000]

Was messing about on the laptop last night and re-sized these for you.

This first pic is of the nasty headers that I believe used to be part of a V8 into Manta kit that could be bought. These were off a V8 that was fitted into a Manta I bought, the car was bought specifically for the Gearbox, clutch, headers, starter motor, and a few other bits that I can't remember that I was in need of at the time.

Basically I only ended up using the gearbox from the car, everything else was junk including the engine which had bolts snapping in the block left right and centre as I tried to dismantle it.

BUT this is a prime example of shit power strangling crap that has been bolted on to many a V8 manta in the past, the flow through these would have been shocking as the pipe that is joined onto the other pipe at approx 90 deg. was acyually protruding into it and would have interfered with gas flow.

The rest of the pics are pretty self explanatory, but will say, excuse the crap welding, this is the result of not buying a better MIG boys and girls, coupled withthe fact that Migging a tube is something I've never got on well with, my weld test at Miltek exhausts was laughable my Tigging was better than theirs though......... Enough waffle, .... PICS.

In the last 2 pics you can see how tight things can be to the Chassis Rails, the inner wing area that overlaps the chassis rails was cut back flush with the chassis rails and seam welded to gain that extra amount of space for the headers.

Also as it may also become clear from the pics, that the amount of space on the drivers side is so limited to run a pipe straight back or even down from the Head, what with the engine mount, crossmember, chassis rails, starter motor, and steering column all compounding the problem, the only real way is forward, OR.... as recently posted up on this forum by I think Richard, (apologies if I've got your name wrong mate it has been a while) from Gatwick with his V8 'A' is another damn good way to ensure you don't strangle the engine, but perhaps with a tad too much underbonnet heat.

Edited March 14, 2011 by opel2000

[opel2000]

Oh must add..........

Basically these headers were built to hopefully flow reasonably well.

Headers can be built in tuned lengths to help extract the gases from the engine, so that say for example if N0. 1 has just fired and No.2 is next to fire then the tubes are joined in correct firing order so that the gases exiting from No2 are actually helped to be drawn out by the velocity of the gas already exiting from No.1.

To try doing this in the space I had was nonsense, all I could do was use as smooth a bend/s as possible (Exhaust gases will go straight and not lose velocity, but do not like being turned around corners as it slows down the velocity) and to use a decent size bore, I worked on the principle of each bank of cylinders being a 1,8 and what a decent 1.8 manifold would be (bore wise).

I remember someone looking into the engine bay and saying "are those tuned lenghts on the headers" first thought that cam to mind was "Twat, you try running tuned lengths in there" but simply looked at him and said no.

BUT having not really looked it perhaps there could have been room but it doubt it.