D438FHA One year on.......

[®evo03]

33 minutes ago, cam.in.head said:

people have said to me many a time 'is your car lowered ?'

😂 Then when its 60mm drop on 13 inch, benefit is......  I'm getting under barriers, free parking 🤫😉🙃 oh and free tax, no MOT, economical and the option of building any drivetrain I want, kinda, and take every opportunity to laugh at someone trying to explain how they are saving the planet with their new hybrid 🤫🤫🤫🤫🤣

Edited January 31, 2023 by ®evo03
Text

[Moonmonkey]

Compared to my wife’s 430d a modern equivalent, the Manta is 8 inches shorter, 14 inches narrower(probably door mirrors are a big part of that) and 600kg lighter!!!!! and the 4 series are only seats 4 these days.

The only benefit is height adjustable seats and steering column that give you a far better driving position than the old Recaro’s, oh and the 440 lb/ft of torque makes it go a bit🤣🤣
 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Moonmonkey
Accuracy

[®evo03]

2 hours ago, Moonmonkey said:

600kg lighter!!!!!

oh and the 440 lb/ft of torque makes it go a bit

That's alot lighter, what's a manta under a tonne? 940kg ? 

That 440 lb/ft of torque may live in Ur manta one day, they didn't make a big stove fireplace for nothing😉 prob when the BM is worth about £1k and tax is £2k.....and the manta is all free.

Although BMS are pointless in the snow, ice or a wee slight frost 😂 wonder why? Is it the wheel width or balance, maybe gearing?, Tyres Or all? 

Almost imbarrasing passing them stranded by the road side, in a hedge, more engine donners, if only they where M3s 😜

 

[Moonmonkey]

3 hours ago, ®evo03 said:

That's alot lighter, what's a manta under a tonne? 940kg ? 

The kerb weight I found online was 965kg that gives the Manta 14 bhp/tonne vs the 430d 15.7 bhp/t. All that safety stuff, and comfort adds a lot of weight. If you have an EV you can add at least another half a tonne on top compared to the ICE version. I was listening to Gordon Murray the other day worry about the weight of his door handles on the T.50, and how he specified 4kg for the total entertainment system on his McLaren F1, and only Kenwood could get close.

The world is going mad we're buying 2.5tonne EV SUV's to take the kids to school and save the planet(?)😕. The only good thing is the lack of exhaust emissions.

Rant over!

3 hours ago, ®evo03 said:

Although BMS are pointless in the snow, ice or a wee slight frost 😂 wonder why? Is it the wheel width or balance, maybe gearing?, Tyres Or all? 

Almost imbarrasing passing them stranded by the road side, in a hedge, more engine donners, if only they where M3s 😜

I think the performance of modern car in the snow is down to wheels too wide, auto gearboxes and traction control. I remember coming over the Cat & Fiddle in the snow one night in an old manual E class estate, while modern cars were getting stuck I could keep going. Even when I had to stop, you just had get the wheels spinning and get a little bit of forward momentum that slowly built into forward motion even though I was on full opposite lock. In modern cars the traction control and auto box just says No and your going nowhere.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Moonmonkey

[TheRealExile]

24 minutes ago, Moonmonkey said:

The kerb weight I found online was 965kg that gives the Manta 14 bhp/tonne vs the 430d 15.7 bhp/t. All that safety stuff, and comfort adds a lot of weight. If you have an EV you can add at least another half a tonne on top compared to the ICE version. I was listening to Gordon Murray the other day worry about the weight of his door handles on the T.50, and how he specified 4kg for the total entertainment system on his McLaren F1, and only Kenwood could get close.

The world is going mad we're buying 2.5tonne EV SUV's to take the kids to school and save the planet(?)😕. The only good thing is the lack of exhaust emissions.

Rant over!

I think the performance of modern car in the snow is down to wheels too wide, auto gearboxes and traction control. I remember coming over the Cat & Fiddle in the snow one night in an old manual E class estate, while modern cars were getting stuck I could keep going. Even when I had to stop, you just had get the wheels spinning and get a little bit of forward momentum that slowly built into forward motion even though I was on full opposite lock. In modern cars the traction control and auto box just says No and your going nowhere.

Was going up a fairly steep hill in the snow in an Octavia Estate which had decided to start sliding backwards ever so slightly, Had stopped to give the car coming in the other direction right of way , of course the traction control said nope you are not going anywhere, no button to switch it off! I was steering left and right to try and get some grip but luckily I manged to overheat the system by keeping the revs going and I finally had control! got up the hill no trouble with the traction control keeping its beak out! 

[Moonmonkey]

Had a run out today and did 100 or so miles in the Manta. I went back to where I grew up in Manchester, not a lot changed in 30 years, council may get round to fixing the potholes😁

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

A good drive everything seems to be working well suspension and brakes all sharp. Steering is a bit heavy, either I'm too used to power steering or it maybe the 215 tyres. I may just check the tracking and reduce the toe in a bit. 

Have discovered a few niggles to sort out, any help and advice welcome:-

1. Radiator is cracked on the bottom hose spout so losing a bit of coolant but not over heating. Have gone ahead and ordered a Coolex 70mm core aluminium replacement in advance of future engine upgrades

2. Idle is sometimes increasing to 3,000rpm when the car is warm. A sharp blip of the throttle to 6,000 rpm cures it and brings it back to around 900rpm. I'm no expert on Bosch L Jetronic but I presuming this will be one of the temperature sensors or could it be the ISC unit on the ignition?

3. The drivers door mirror is twisting backwards at speeds above 60mph, is it possible to tighten the twisting adjustment mechanism as it feels a bit lose? 

Many thanks

[cam.in.head]

the isc unit can be bypassed i beleive by just unplugging and connecting the ends together.

the gte injection doesnt have idle speed control like the 2.2 so it could be the airvalve sticking  ?

[Jessopia74]

Sounds more like the Throttle cable or spindle sticking a little close to closed position than the bypass valve, blipping throttle would not magically close it. I would start here. When it’s idling high, go check it’s returning properly under the bonnet 

[Moonmonkey]

2 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

the isc unit can be bypassed i beleive by just unplugging and connecting the ends together.

the gte injection doesnt have idle speed control like the 2.2 so it could be the airvalve sticking  ?

 

1 hour ago, Jessopia74 said:

Sounds more like the Throttle cable or spindle sticking a little close to closed position than the bypass valve, blipping throttle would not magically close it. I would start here. When it’s idling high, go check it’s returning properly under the bonnet 

Thanks, I’ll try to get a look tomorrow, hopefully it’s as simple as sticking spindle😊

Starter has also started playing up. Sometimes just clicks as if the battery is flat and then fires into life On second or third attempt. Battery is showing fully charged on the gauge and multimeter. Maybe poor contacts with sitting unused for so long.🤔

[Jonathan Pounsett]

Mirror has an adjusting screw and spring. Tighten it a bit from underneath and see if it stiffens it up. Mine were both rusted solid so I replaced the springs and screws with a stainless steel one but it’s too weak so I’m constantly having to reposition both mirrors.

Bad earth to the engine block?

[Moonmonkey]

8 hours ago, Jonathan Pounsett said:

Mirror has an adjusting screw and spring. Tighten it a bit from underneath and see if it stiffens it up. Mine were both rusted solid so I replaced the springs and screws with a stainless steel one but it’s too weak so I’m constantly having to reposition both mirrors.

Bad earth to the engine block?

Thanks I’ll have look.

Earth is a good shout, I’m thinking I should probably clean them all up as a matter of course

[®evo03]

Rad spout outlet could be resoldered.

As above, sticky flap 😆

Mirror, there is a thin plastic gasket spacer in there somewhere, I did think they where auto aerodynamic, as they adjust themselves to wing mode. 

The missing spacer doesnt help. 

Earth, there is an earth on the back of the inlet manifold too, also if the earth is weak, it will earth through the clutch cable, which will have its own issues. 

And welcome to manta ownership 🤣

A few wee niggles, early sorted. Hope you are enjoying, reliving photo is great,👍

[Moonmonkey]

Been busy doing a few little jobs

Upgrade the dashboard, courtesy lights etc to LED as 1200Bandit did, makes a hell of a difference when you are getting on in years

The mirror was easily adjusted with the 2 little screws behind the gasket, once I got the rotary knob off and was able to take the mirror off. Thanks Evo03/paulmanta for the insight. 

Jess was right👍 the sticking throttle was mechanical. It was the rubber grommet from the end of the outer cable sliding down the throttle cable and getting wedged in between the hose, and the throttle spindle😖

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

 

Project images are available to Club Members Only, Click to become an OMOC Member.

On to the problem still confounding me😖. Every time you go to start the engine cold you get the deadman's click of a flat battery even if its been fully charged. After 5 0r 6 attempts the starter eventually turns and tries fire up a now flooded engine. Once the engine has run a while and is warm it tends to be a lot better, generally starting on the first turn or at most 1 attempt where it just clicks.

I have cleaned all the earths to the battery, engine, alternator etc. Cleaned all the starter, alternator connections etc, and it seemed to get better but didn't go away. The battery has always seemed ok on voltage at just over 13v but I was beginning to think a cell might be going down under load. Yesterday it started it fine when I jump started it so I bought a new battery, with a higher Ah/CCA  just for good measure. Fully charged and fitted the new battery, and yet again i5 or 6 clicks before the starter turns!!!!!😖

So my only thinking now is there is a problem with the starter, the solenoid or the wire between the two - Does anybody have any other thoughts or advice please? Maybe I just have to bite the bullet and buy a new one.

On a brighter note I have acquired a big box of bits including most of a 20XE, sump, gearbox, exhaust manifold etc so now I have to decide whether to rebuild the 20XE or C24NE 🤔 The XE is obviously the cheaper route to power, but I have a nostalgic soft spot for the 2.4CIH boat anchor as it maybe.

[®evo03]

Earth strap cleans, should be one to the chassis, had this before, also had starter issue, just swapped it out. 

I'm sure there is a starter rebuild thread on here somewhere. 

[cam.in.head]

if you have done all the earths then it sounds like bad contacts in the solenoid or worn or sticking motor brushes. all easy enough to sort but may be better replacing whole starter.if your is a gte then plenty of options for one. all early models will fit and for a bit more power one will fit from a carlton 2.2 or even one of the 6 cylinder models, straight exchange no mods. 

[H-400]

Both my Manta's have a starter the 2.4-3.0 liter engines. They are all the same (even the 24V ones) and have as cam.in.head wrote more power. Had the same problems as Evo and was just tired to keep on looking for the solution. No more start problems anymore...

[Moonmonkey]

Thanks all for confirming it must be related to the starter as I’ve done everything else. I used to have the 3.0 starter on the rally car so will see if I can find one.  It’s a bit frustrating as I’m planning an engine swap and if I use the XE I won’t need it for long, although it will fit the C24NE.

[Jessopia74]

2 hours ago, Moonmonkey said:

Thanks all for confirming it must be related to the starter as I’ve done everything else. I used to have the 3.0 starter on the rally car so will see if I can find one.  It’s a bit frustrating as I’m planning an engine swap and if I use the XE I won’t need it for long, although it will fit the C24NE.

If you get one and then it’s available, message me I’ll take it off you fir future use on one of my 2.4 project engines 

[Moonmonkey]

57 minutes ago, Jessopia74 said:

If you get one and then it’s available, message me I’ll take it off you fir future use on one of my 2.4 project engines 

Thanks👍

[Moonmonkey]

Typically, got in the Manta first thing this morning and it started on first turn of the key, no clicking????

[Jessopia74]

On 04/03/2023 at 15:39, Moonmonkey said:

Typically, got in the Manta first thing this morning and it started on first turn of the key, no clicking????

Next time it dies it, pop spark plugs and check if water comes out. 

[Moonmonkey]

33 minutes ago, Jessopia74 said:

Next time it dies it, pop spark plugs and check if water comes out. 

Intrigued, do you think it could be hydrolocking due to a leaking head gasket? TBH there is some water in the exhaust during warm up but its not losing any water or overheating.

I did have the starter off, and bench tested yesterday. It still just clicked then, and didn't spin up so I was thinking the starter was the issue. I have just bought a new starter, original GMX recon for a 3.0 CIH

Edited March 6, 2023 by Moonmonkey
Grammar

[cam.in.head]

if it clicks watch the voltmeter. if it drops significantly then the motor is drawing power but i suspect it will not drop much .suggesting solenoid or brushes issue. 

plenty of starters about / options anyway. 

[Jessopia74]

1 hour ago, Moonmonkey said:

Intrigued, do you think it could be hydrolocking due to a leaking head gasket? TBH there is some water in the exhaust during warm up but its not losing any water or overheating.

I did have the starter off, and bench tested yesterday. It still just clicked then, and didn't spin up so I was thinking the starter was the issue. I have just bought a new starter, original GMX recon for a 3.0 CIH

Ah, thought it was with replacement starter. But year sounds like the coil in the solenoid might be breaking down, usually it’s the coating that starts to go. Or contacts are carbonised. Refurb would do it some good. 

[Moonmonkey]

I did just try it without plugs to double check. Even with the plugs out and no compression it still clicks and turns over intermittently, so I think it must be the starter. Hopefully the new one will be delivered this week

Thanks everyone for their help🙂

TBH I need to get on with the XE rebuild, decided this is the best way to go. Just need to finance it🤔 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Moonmonkey