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Clutch issue


Mickfrad
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After getting my exclusive back on the road it suffered with clutch judder pulling away. I had another clutch and friction plate which I sent off to be refurbished. Fitting this refurbished clutch and adjusted up as much as possible I’m barely able to select gear even without the engine running. The refurbed plate is an older type which goes in with the longer side flywheel side. As per the sticker on the refurbed plate. 
EE0A6F54-257F-4C55-A980-4B24B0C8FD53.thumb.jpeg.2e60950d7b3aac910ec5e56953e87499.jpeg
 

The sticker was put on as it had been previously put in the wrong way round and had worn down some rivets. I’m tempted to put it back in the other way round too see if that works, but thought I’d tap into the experience on here.

Could the release bearing be the wrong one are there different thicknesses. 

0AA554EA-2C30-45F1-8B6C-D390F45DCCE6.thumb.jpeg.ada969a8754d7b46b123b264a94d927e.jpeg

refurbished clutch old type compared to the one I took out which is the other version with the circlip. 


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Any advice appreciated 

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The wear was to the refurbished clutch from previous fitting and was sorted on the refurb. The pilot bearing looked ok and I had no noise or issues previously other than judder pulling away when warm. 

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Is that sticker right? 

So the raised side of the friction plate goes against flywheel?  Are you asking if this needs confirmed?

Any pics of the ball adjuster on gearbox,  also cable side of fork.

You using the same cable?

Think all release bearings are different, 1.8, 2.0e, 2.0s etc. 

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That was my initial thought but that type of clutch has the raised side against the flywheel which is how I had fitted it. 
i took the adjuster and fork off to get the release bearing out as I wanted to see if it had any numbers or identification on it. 
same cable and release bearing that we’re working previously. 
i have now ordered a new cable and release bearing to rule them out. 

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If I remember correctly, if you put the raised side towards the flywheel (while it’s off) does it even make contact with the flywheel? I’ve tried it before (can’t remember which set up) but the raised side against the flywheel wouldn’t touch. Worth checking. Do the same with the friction plate up against the pressure plate and see which side suits it. Usually the raised bit is pressure plate side. 

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Think clutch kits usually have all three items,  but as you said you got yours lined, can't see it being the release bearing,  unless a large section is missing.  Any info in the Haynes manual. 

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If its a 4 speed plate the nose is too long you need to either grind it down or change plate back. No adjustment will sort it. I know I did it. 

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It’s one that was in the car when I got it. And worked with no issues I was aware of.
But like I said looked like it had been installed back to front at some point and started to wear down some rivets on the clutch.

so would have probably got worse over time. How can I tell if it’s the 4 speed one and how much would I need to grind off ? 

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1 hour ago, Sutty2006 said:

If I remember correctly, if you put the raised side towards the flywheel (while it’s off) does it even make contact with the flywheel? I’ve tried it before (can’t remember which set up) but the raised side against the flywheel wouldn’t touch. Worth checking. Do the same with the friction plate up against the pressure plate and see which side suits it. Usually the raised bit is pressure plate side. 

The boss would contact first, and that would cause the drag. Hence my thoughts about spigot as something us causing the input shaft still to have some drive when clutch is depressed 

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I had another look at the spigot couldn’t see anything unusual. 
The pressure plate will sit either way round with over a 5mm gap to flywheel bolts with long side towards flywheel.
The other way round puts the rivets on the clutch and the metal that holds the springs very close together but not touching.


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probably ok for a few thousand miles or so until they make contact. 

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No I havn’t tested the spigot to see if it turns ok, but the plate moves freely. 
This is an issue without the engine running so wouldn’t have thought the bearing would make a difference, 

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41 minutes ago, Mickfrad said:

No I havn’t tested the spigot to see if it turns ok, but the plate moves freely. 
This is an issue without the engine running so wouldn’t have thought the bearing would make a difference, 

Usually when selecting gear without engine running it still needs to rotate the input shaft slightly as it lights up the selector ring mate. If it’s jammed then it would be semi locking the input shaft to the flywheel /crank. You can try this if you take hand brake off and rock the car as you try to engage the gear (working backwards )

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Posted (edited)

Checked spigot today turning freely.

looks like it’s the wrong plate, that was put in at some time and to get it to work was put in the wrong way round. 
There is about 1.5-2 mm of clearance before things start touching.

so I can put it back in the wrong way round and it will probably last a few years with the minimal mileage that get done. Or send the other one off for refurb, which is probably the sensible option. 

These are the two plates flywheel side up.

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621267B8-0751-46E8-83DE-99CF00E07A2E.thumb.jpeg.3601da3720958949f85411c03c3f710f.jpeg
 
And the other side 

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No 1 shows the position of the face of the plate fully on the shaft of the refurbished plate the right way round. 

No 2 is the other way round and the other plate both ways round. 


8651E589-573A-4284-9821-F957A623FE97.thumb.jpeg.82f2bfa5156ec50a72c02f9c4fdb81b6.jpeg
 

Edited by Mickfrad
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as mentioned earlier i have checked all my spare discs and none are other than 4 spring type so may have been wrong originally. 

BUT if it worked before and has simply been relined then it should work now.

yes there are a couple of different release bearing designs but they are dimiensionslly identical and interchangeable .the bearing has to fit into the release arm correctly on the flats so it locks into place but that would be obvious if not in right.

even as mentioned the discs when new could even be physically fitted the wrong way round and would not rub but you are also correct in that early and laterdiscs are fitted different ways round.something to do with the offset of the central bore.

so

if the disc worked before and everything else is the same ( and correct) then it must be something to do withthe disc.that seems obvious but what ?

final checklist

spigot bearing ok and free.

disc ok on splines.

arm adjusted correct.

release bearing located in arm correct

disc not refaced too thick

pressure plate correct( if replaced) same dimentions/ drive surface to mounting flange level( within range)

flywheel not skimmed.

 

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Posted (edited)

I agree it will work if I put it back in the wrong way round as it must have come out that way. The problem arises further down the line when it starts rubbing due to clearance issues. Who knows how long this could take and probably not cause me any issues but now I know and I have the correct one I may as well sort it properly. 
i did have the flywheel skimmed as it was a bit of a mess. But the outer edge was taken down the same amount as the inner. 
would be handy if I could find out what the plate was off as it’s a shame to waste it. 
 

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Edited by Mickfrad
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