Trooker Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 First decent run out tonight since before lockdown. Did about 15 miles & noticed a slight misfire. Stopped for fuel, set off again & a bit apt to bog down but feathering the throttle & got going ok. Once on the go didn’t seem too bad until the next village & roundabouts etc. When I got onto the dual carriageway it seemed ok, sat at 70 no issues. There’s a set of lights a couple of miles from home & a bit of an uphill, it was quiet so took the opportunity to give a bit of stick & see if it was a load thing. Roughly 5500rpm in 3rd & lost power. Freewheeled & nipped down a lane. Thought the ecu had died again but after some checks realised my 14 month 6,000 mile worth new old stock coil was shot. Put in the tired looking old one & got home fine. Need to tidy it up but it’s dark & late however thought I’d write this up while it’s fresh in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam.in.head Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 theres a few members here now with strange power/ running issues. what is going on ? hope its not due to the e5 petrol . you are having issues ,hooby and danny too . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessopia74 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 There are Orings in the injectors, wonder if the e5 is damaging them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny D114BCW Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 To be honest i have changed that much on mine its really got me head scratching including other very knowledgeable members. I don't think the fuel ethanol thing is the issue in my case but it sure doesn't smell like petrol used to when i bought some cans the other night, it smells old. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessopia74 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 What plugs are you running? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooker Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 Thanks for the replies. I was tired & long winded last night... My coil died, I jury-rigged a spare one to get home. I was surprised a NOS one failed. Jess I’m pretty sure it’s Bosch plugs but will check after work - mush dash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessopia74 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 6 hours ago, Trooker said: Thanks for the replies. I was tired & long winded last night... My coil died, I jury-rigged a spare one to get home. I was surprised a NOS one failed. Jess I’m pretty sure it’s Bosch plugs but will check after work - mush dash! E85 we should be running colder plugs. I now am suspecting this might be why we are seeing so many issues all of a sudden. we should stay away from hotter and the fine tip electrode(platinum) Plugs as they could be causing auto ignition of the e85. So oem would be BPR6HS, maybe a BPR8HS would help, or possibly colder still, 9.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooker Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 The Bosch plugs in mine have W R7BC stamped in the metal. I’m off out for a quick spin as it’s still a decent evening to see if all is ok now. Will look at your spec sheet when I get to a laptop, thanks for posting. I was wondering if there was a low impedance issue that’s killed that coil but I think the plugs I’m running are resistive. cheers Alex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooker Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 15 miles later & all good - phew! Now to buy another spare coil. Any recommendations? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessopia74 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 10 hours ago, Trooker said: The Bosch plugs in mine have W R7BC stamped in the metal. I’m off out for a quick spin as it’s still a decent evening to see if all is ok now. Will look at your spec sheet when I get to a laptop, thanks for posting. I was wondering if there was a low impedance issue that’s killed that coil but I think the plugs I’m running are resistive. cheers Alex The 7 is one of the colder plugs Bosch make, but I do not know how it compares directly to the NGK Heat characteristics. As fit coil pack, stick with a Bosch unit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam.in.head Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 the coil you were using was a 12 volt coil designed to be fed with 12 volt constant rather than a coil for a points type ignition with a 4.5-6volt primary ? ( resistive feed) using a wrong coil would definately burn it out eventually. the original points coil has a primary resistance of 1.2 - 1.8 ohms. the later electronic ignition coil is 0.6 - 0.9 ohms ( stamped bosch KW12V) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooker Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 hour ago, cam.in.head said: the coil you were using was a 12 volt coil designed to be fed with 12 volt constant rather than a coil for a points type ignition with a 4.5-6volt primary ? ( resistive feed) using a wrong coil would definately burn it out eventually. the original points coil has a primary resistance of 1.2 - 1.8 ohms. the later electronic ignition coil is 0.6 - 0.9 ohms ( stamped bosch KW12V) Excellent point! Not long after I got the car it broke down, all kinds of things were tried including getting new coil. The one that was fitted had no numbers but I found what looked the same on eBay & appeared to be for a Manta - fitted it (no change at the time as there were various issues) and at least it looked better. When I broke down the other evening I knew I still had the original in the New Old Stock in my spares cupboard. Having looked at it now, the eBay replacement was an Intermotor 12201. I've found their catalogue online & poked around & it appears that the 12201 is for the 2.0S... which has points. https://www.smpeurope.com/documents/Intermotor Coil Catalogue 2016.compressed.pdf I don't see an obvious alternative for the 2.0E that looks similar in that catalogue so will get a Bosch just in case as I still don't know exactly what's fitted right now. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam.in.head Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 to be honest that also looks like a coil for a points car. usually the electronic ones have a red top bosch coil on them .il test the resistance on mine (looks same as yours) on a points car and il test the one on an electronic ign to see if they compare with the resistances i mentioned .they were from the haynes book. then you will know what you have got. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exclusive Opel Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Didn't the 1.8 coil use a resistor wire in it's supply to drop the voltage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam.in.head Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 all the electronic ignition units used a 12volt supply direct to the coil and control unit. only the early points ignition used a ballast in the form of a resistance wire from ignition switch. as far as i know i stand to be corrected 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessopia74 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Iirc the only reason why they used the lower voltage coils was to aid cranking (volt drop in cold conditions) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-400 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 @Cam in head: Your info about the resistant wire with contact points ignition is right, but they get 12Volt when cranking from the starter engine as Jess wrote. Just want to inform that my '87 Manta GSI has got that same coil, look at the pic: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooker Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 55 minutes ago, H-400 said: @Cam in head: Your info about the resistant wire with contact points ignition is right, but they get 12Volt when cranking from the starter engine as Jess wrote. Just want to inform that my '87 Manta GSI has got that same coil, look at the pic: That’s a very smart looking engine bay, mine is an ‘85 GSi so guess they’re the same. Do you have any numbers on yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-400 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Will have a look at it tomorrow, got another one laying in my "cave". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam.in.head Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 i have the bosch number for the cylindrical coil 1227 020 009 but not the square. the square coils are delco i think and do look similar between points and electronic type. can be confirmed with resistance if you have a meter. i will measure mine this weekend. unless herman has a part number for you. multimeter across the outer terminals. yes the extra wire on the starter solenoid gives 12volt straight to the coil on cranking to give a more powerfull spark than the coil usually gives to aid starting .once started the voltage drops and the engine runs. permanent 12v (as in wrong coil) will kill it eventually. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exclusive Opel Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Just had a quick check of mine as I have it here at the moment. I've been using a Delco coil (dry square type). The only number I can see on it is 227 3523. It has the round post and single tab on LV side. Resistance measurements using a digital multimeter: Between + & - 1ohm HV & + 3k3 HV & - 3k3 Fitted to a GT/E. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-400 Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Sorry guys, found the one in my "cave " but only read "Made in France" on it, so I went to the GSI and after close inspection I found something but cause of the rust it is not possible to make something of it. Checked the partscatalogue but I don't find the one for the electronical ignition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam.in.head Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Exclusive Opel said: Just had a quick check of mine as I have it here at the moment. I've been using a Delco coil (dry square type). The only number I can see on it is 227 3523. It has the round post and single tab on LV side. Resistance measurements using a digital multimeter: Between + & - 1ohm HV & + 3k3 HV & - 3k3 Fitted to a GT/E. that defeninately suggests its the lower resistance ( hence correct) electronic coil.1 ohm minus a bit of resistance in the meter leads brings it down to below 0.9 easily. il check mine this weekend for him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooker Posted June 26, 2020 Author Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) Thanks again for all the advice, its really encouraging! Coil I'm now running & pictured above is 0.9 Ohms between the primary inputs & 11.8k between the secondary HV out & the low voltage in's. Not having thought about ignition coils in donkey's years I guess this suggests more windings in the secondary than in Exclusive Opel's one? So I wondered which coil died inside the one that I was using when the car stopped & there was no spark in the plugs so I just tested it & frustratingly its fine on cold tests with the multimeter. Primaries 0.9 Ohm, primaries to secondary 2.33k so, I'll try the newer but suspected unserviceable one tomorrow - to be continued... I should add that I nipped downtown to collect a takeaway tonight & all seemed fine Edited June 26, 2020 by Trooker typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malbasys Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Have you guys tried a replacement rotor? I learned not long ago that all German cars made since before Manta days have a ballast resistor in the rotor arm. After experiencing misfiring on my '65 Kadett when hot, it eventually died altogether. After checking everything, with the help of an AA guy and finding no spark at the plugs, I pulled off the coil lead at the disributor to find there was a fat spark. Then the usual, checked and replaced the pigtail wire in the distributor, etc. and still no joy. After uplifting the car home, bought a new rotor and the car fired instantly. The elderly chap at a very traditional spares shop told me about the rotor ballast - which I confirmed on line. The Kadett had always had a weak spark when cranking cold, not cured by replacing the coil or with copper ignition leads: I'd put this down to 6v electrics - wrongly. An alternative (and ultimately safer solution) to the rotor ballast issue is to melt or pick out the hard wax on the rotor arm and replace solder in a strip,of brass between the centre and tip - see suggestions online. I've yet to try this and am a bit corncerned about possibly affecting the balance of the rotor.. The answer should be to weight it before trying, then ensure it weights the same afterwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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