V8 Engine problem

[Tiddsey]

Afternoon Folks,

 

I'm hoping you all may be able to help.

I recently bought a Manta GTE from a member here on the site.

It has a 4.0 v8 from the TVR Chimaera. Its a track prepped car and having only done about an hours worth of track time in total since buying it, it broke down.

Oil pressure started to drop mid session so I nursed it back to the pits. I let it cool down and checked the oil level. Oil level was fine.]

I started it up and the oil pressure was slightly up, but not back to 'normal' If i revved the engine the pressure would jump to normal, but as soon as revs dropped, oil pressure dropped. we are talking a drop from 4 bar to less than 2 bar.

I took it out on track with a view to doing a lap and coming back in,  i got about 2 thirds around castle combe and it suddenly broke down. Bit of a clunk and then just no power.

3 hours later and an expensive tow home (as apparently my breakdown doesn't cover cars past 2004! always read the small print). 

I cannot see anything painfully obvious other than there is oil coming from somewhere, not pouring out, but definitely a drip.

The car will turn over, but obviously wont start.

 

I am admittedly a little green on the old engines and general engine mechanics. Any ideas what I might be looking at here?

I'm not too proud to admit that in hindsight, I shouldn't have gone back out on the track after oil pressure had dropped, but also I'd rather it conked out on the track than when I'm driving home. 

[evo3000]

This has got to be the Bris jas hatch its fair to say😎 i,m sure he will be along soon or someone will be to advise you on this problem.. 👍

[H-400]

Was indeed not a good idea to take it back on the track, when oil pressure drops it is done with driving. The only thing to do now is engine out and opening it, the "clunk" can de a conrod or something else. Don't start it cause it can damage the engine block. Not sure what design (Rover?) those engines are but older V8's have the oil pump into the sump with gears as the CIH engine. Newer have the oil pump on the front but whatever the reason was the engine must be opened. 

Succes!

[Tiddsey]

In the moment when youve paid £150 for a trackday and only done 15 minutes on track I think an element of hopefulness crept in, thinking it just needed a top up.

Hindsight and all that!

 

I am still in touch with Jason (who I bought it from) but he has pointed me towards a mechanic.

Got to be honest, I am pi***d off as I've done less than 100 miles since buying it (albeit on track) and this has happened. 

I've booked it in to my mechanic who will have a look, but if its a biggie I might have to sell it as a spares/repairs.

Advice and guidance is greatly appreciated as I've just not got a clue where to go from here.

 

[bris jas]

Sure was the one i sold, really gutted for Kurtis and trying to help where i can.

Had the car for years, did track days and drove it to many meets. Never nice when you sell something and this sort of thing happens, really hope he gets it sorted as wouldn't want to see it sold for spares.

[Jessopia74]

Yeah, before you do anything get it looked at.

it could be something that is very serious, but also it might not. Get a mechanic or a mate that is mechanically minded To have a look over the engine see if anything really detrimental is immediately visible.

 

A garage would possibly take on the repairs if it’s nothing really serious (like rod hanging out the side). My garage would, but Bristol is too far for a quick (from Hull) look but if you struggle for somewhere PM me see if we can sort anything for you.

[Tiddsey]

Thanks for the reply,  I'm fairly mechanically minded, so I had it on stands today and had a good look around and underneath. no rods popping out from casings fortunately! Although there was a clio 197 which threw a rod through its engine casing on the same trackday as me.

Anyway it was very wet with oil, looks like it's been leaking from every possible mated surface/gasket. Found a bolt missing from the sump which had sheared and been filled with rtv sealant.

Oil just behind the dizzy and by the valley gasket. Leaking at the diff.

Basically oil everywhere but it all looked like historic weeping, not pouring out from anywhere obvious.

I've booked it in with my mechanic who I trust, but not sure how experienced he is on this type of car.

I'll try and get a diagnosis and go from there, but I'm feeling like it's a bit if a pup and there would be a lot of work required just to stop the leaks let alone find the problem.

Underwhelmed by its performance on track anyway so it will be sold once repaired or sold as spares/repairs anyway.

[Jessopia74]

28 minutes ago, Tiddsey said:

Thanks for the reply,  I'm fairly mechanically minded, so I had it on stands today and had a good look around and underneath. no rods popping out from casings fortunately! Although there was a clio 197 which threw a rod through its engine casing on the same trackday as me.

Anyway it was very wet with oil, looks like it's been leaking from every possible mated surface/gasket. Found a bolt missing from the sump which had sheared and been filled with rtv sealant.

Oil just behind the dizzy and by the valley gasket. Leaking at the diff.

Basically oil everywhere but it all looked like historic weeping, not pouring out from anywhere obvious.

I've booked it in with my mechanic who I trust, but not sure how experienced he is on this type of car.

I'll try and get a diagnosis and go from there, but I'm feeling like it's a bit if a pup and there would be a lot of work required just to stop the leaks let alone find the problem.

Underwhelmed by its performance on track anyway so it will be sold once repaired or sold as spares/repairs anyway.

Yeah, that engine has had its day. Maybe put the money towards a 1uz V8 or a turbo lump. Andy has a SAAB b204 powered car and I am about 20% into my b234 conversion. A bit a of a fiddle for the sump setup, but the std Trionic 5 ecu is stand alone after a bit of adjustment, and very mappable. Std out of the car you can get it close to 300bhp with just a few cheap mods on std T25/TD04 . Cheap unit for transplant and stronger than a c20LET.

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Jessopia74

[GTEPETE]

I wouldn,t pack it in yet...engines can be rebuilt, especially worthwhile if its a TVR based engine....they are very simple engines compared to modern V8s as long as the rest of the car is ok....I would stick to  a V8. Another option is to buy another engine . You could go for a 4.6.....plenty about

[paulmanta]

The Rover V8 can be quite a nippy motor if it's tuned up properly, mine in my V8 was great fun.

 

They are simple motors to rebuild and improve but at the same time can be leaky old things if they are not buttoned up tight and the seals and gaskets top quality ones.

Cam timing is important, if it's had a slightly  "hot" or racy cam put in then to get the best from it you need to make sure it is timed up properly.  Or it will sound great but lack go.  Fueling is important too and needs setting up properly.

PM me if you want, I have been into the Rover V8 for 20+ years.

[mantasrme]

The guy in the unit next to mine is a TVR specialist, i'll ask him if he has any clues to a likely suspect area for you.

[Tiddsey]

Thanks the help and guidance folks ,  it's really useful.

Any pointers are greatly appreciated

[GTEPETE]

10 hours ago, paulmanta said:

The Rover V8 can be quite a nippy motor if it's tuned up properly, mine in my V8 was great fun.

 

They are simple motors to rebuild and improve but at the same time can be leaky old things if they are not buttoned up tight and the seals and gaskets top quality ones.

Cam timing is important, if it's had a slightly  "hot" or racy cam put in then to get the best from it you need to make sure it is timed up properly.  Or it will sound great but lack go.  Fueling is important too and needs setting up properly.

PM me if you want, I have been into the Rover V8 for 20+ years.

Top trumps, rebuilt my first Rover V8 in 1980! Had the fastest Viva HB in Reading! (with a Chevy V8 it probably still is!)

[cam.in.head]

hi. like any engine issues its worth goin through the obvious stuff before totally condemning the unit. 

you say it turns over so thats a start. with the plugs still in and cranking does it still sound even (basic compression test)or are there any strange noises or does it turn with an irregular sound/speed.

if all is well then you could do a proper compression test with a guage to confirm. im guessing you wouldnt be at this stage thou as an oil pressure issue wouldnt cause a non start or even a stall unless serious damage has been done.

now some of the rover v8's were wired with a dual oil pressure sensor which didnt allow the engine to run unless there was oil pressure .i remember this on a land rover 101 and i beleive it opened a fuel supply valve .not saying yours has this feature though ?

the tvr expert will no doubt be able to offer some other suggestions as to common issues or the placement of oil pressure releif/ bypass and other oil pumping related things to check over whilst engine is still in the car.

after this if we are talking mechanical then its a case of whats actually gone wrong and more importantly what damage has actually been done.

[mantasrme]

I've talked to my TVR mate and he has a few questions. What oil grade are you running in it?

When this happened,

On 20/08/2020 at 15:50, Tiddsey said:

Bit of a clunk and then just no power.

Did the engine cut out or was it running, but just no power trying to stall etc.

Then Is the auxillary belt a single V belt (about 10mm wide) or a multi-V belt about 25mm wide. That shows if it is an early or late chimera 4.0 engine.

On Early engines (with the narrow single V belt) the dizzy is driven from the camshaft and in turn drives the oil pump that is just above the oil filter inside the front cover.

Late engines the oil pump is on the front of the engine and directly driven from the crankshaft.

If its an early engine the gear on the shaft driving the oil pump can fail. Also the pulley on the cam driving the dizzy can come loose or the woodruf key break, which would result in the car not starting as the dizzy is not turning.

He says (if its an early one) turn the engine by hand with dizzy cap off to see if the rotor arm rotates. If not you have cam pulley issue. If it does rotate put rotor arm to No1 cylinder and mark the dizzy housing to engine cover and remove dizzy to check if the drive at the bottom that rotates the pump is in place.

He's also seen oil pumps fail or just be so worn that hot thin oil will not produce the full pressure.

There are other things it could be obviously and it depends if the oil pressure loss and new lack of starting are linked or an unlucky coincidence.