Upper steering column bearing

[moodoo]

Folks,

Is there a better bearing available for the top of the steering column? I've had a rattle from somewhere around the column area for ages now. Finally tried to track it down. Got as far in as the top bearing, and I can see the steering shaft is able to move (sideways, not vertically) ever so slightly. Looking really closely,  the shaft is a good fit in the inner race, but the inner race can actually move slightly in the bearing. Got a new bearing, fitted it, and it does exactly the same! If I put the wheel on, and rock it side to side, the bearing makes a slight noise, I'm guessing from the inner race hitting the balls in the bearing.

Is that just the way those bearings are? 

Thanks,
Fin

[cam.in.head]

you have got the spring in havnt you ?

[moodoo]

Yep, sure do.

[Exclusive Opel]

This is the part number to check against your but you will have the right one as I doubt anyhting else would fit. I can check mine tomorrow afternoon to see if it does the same as mine is new and the car has only done about ten yards since I fitted it a couple of years ago! Old one was very loose and would move sideways.

[moodoo]

That's be great if you could check. Maybe the new bearing I have is a cheapo far eastern version. Are genuine ones still available? 

[mantasrme]

Another thing to look at is the inner column about 2 feet down inside the web section of the outer column. This is where it turns from a tube to the 3/4"DD shaft that goes through the lower bearing (all part of the collapsable column design).

Originally this joint is held by plastic injected into it, however if the column has suffered impacts (like previous owners trying to remove the steering wheel with a hammer, or from hammering from bellow trying to remove/fit a tight UJ in the engine bay) the plastic pins that are designed to shear may have given up. They are designed to do so and allow the lower section to slide up inside the upper from a front end collision so the column isn't pushed at the driver.

I've had a few where this has happened and the upper and lower parts can then move a little at this joint. So the upper section to the wheel is only supported by the bearing with a slight amount of movement at the bottom. Rather than supported at both ends by bearings that have no latteral movement.

So what could be happening is the shaft is actually pivoting inside the bearing and showing as sideways movement. Hopefully that makes sense as its hard to explain clearly. But if you've fitted a new bearing and still have noticable play its worth looking at.

[®evo03]

The column it self isnt moving, is it? Alloy, plastic holders agaist bulkhead. 

[611]

What about where its bolted up to the dash at the top. On the A the holes are oval to allow for movement for alignment, if these were loose it will move from side to side a bit at the top, just a thought!

 

Andy

[Exclusive Opel]

Just checked and have got zero play in all directions. If I remember correctly, the switch assembly is held on by two bolts (or three)? These are tight? Just a thought as everything may have squared itself up and settled down after being put back together and may need nipping up. Long shot.

[moodoo]

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions...everything is tightened ok...but looks like my new bearing must be junk too then, if you should have zero play in all directions. If the video works below, you can see what I've got. Still a bit hard to see, but it's not the shaft moving relative to the bearing, it's the inner race moving. The result is that even with everything fully assembled back together, you get a serious rattle when on any sort of bad surface. The amount of movement is tiny, but the rattle it makes is doing my head in!!

[cam.in.head]

its hard to see from the video if its the shaft moving (loose fit) in the bearing or the bearing moving .but that video is without the spring in so it will move a lot anyway.

only with the spring in and the steering wheel tightened down will the bearing loose its sideways movement.

if the shaft is ok and the bearing is resting on the shaft shoulder,the housing in the switch assembly is not worn,and the spring on top is present then that only leaves the bearing but ive never seen one with any side play myself yet .the spring eliminates it !

[moodoo]

Thanks. Obviously I can’t see the bearing with the spring, thrust washer,  and steering wheel on, but even after putting them in, when I rock the wheel back and forth just a fraction, I can hear a click-clack. Then if I grab the wheel and give it s good shake, I can hear the same ‘rattling’ from the bearing area.

I might get a plain bearing knocked up out of plastic, and fit that instead, just to determine for sure if the bearing is making the noise or not. I can’t see what else would be causing the noise though.

[moodoo]

This is the noise I have when the steering wheel, spring, etc are in place....

[®evo03]

Yep can see movement in both videos, man that would do ur head in! If the bearing at the bottom is ok, and the plastic studs are still intact, creating a seesaw movement, it has to be the top bearing, i would measure the shaft diameter where the bearing sits and take it from there, maybe the shaft has worn, as the shaft is moving slightly along with inner casing of bearing in first video, does this stop when spring is loaded and steering tightened. 

Does it rock like this when wheels are on the ground, not jacked up, or when steering wheel is in any position? 

Surely someone has a complete column! 

[cam.in.head]

ok. one more silly question,just out of curiosity.

is that a standard steering wheel ? if not the loading spring may not be pressing down enough.not resting in the same place  on a standard wheel you have to hold it down pretty well to get the nut on otherwise the spring will push the steering wheel into your face !

also and i would need to check but can the bearing be fitted upside down ? wrong way ?

[moodoo]

Hi...yes, it is a standard wheel, I just took the cowling etc off it, to make sure there was nothing rattling inside! I don't see anything on the bearing to indicate a right way up or down, looks symmetrical to me.

The funny thing is, with the wheel and the spring on, there is zero sideways movement of the wheel or steering shaft. The only thing that remains is the damn rattle 'from the bearing'. I've only checked with wheels on the ground, not with it jacked up. A local guy is going to make me up a plain bearing to try instead of the original. At least that way I can find out if the bearing is the thing making the noise for 100% sure.

[1200bandit]

You can and pack it out with a cut down coke can just to see if it’s the bearings,it may help to find the problem 

[cam.in.head]

i just removed my steering wheel to double check for you. there is definate sideways movement until the spring and wheel is back on ,then there is none. also cannot detect any movement up or down or a rattle from mine. 

ive looked at a bearing and they are not symetrical internally and mine is definately fitted the other way up.you cannot see the ball bearings from the top.  wether this will make a difference or not i dont know .

as for the rattle.   the spring is there to compress and take up the slack in the bearing so its either loose in the bore,loose in the housing or faulty. 

if i were you i would turn the bearing and see if it makes a difference first .

 

 

also whilst the bearing / housing is off have a pull on the shaft .if it pulls straight up then this confirms that the collapsible section has broken its tabs.   or try and turn the shaft as the steering wheel would and see if the noise / movement is there. that would suggest problems with the shaft,bottom bearing or u/j.

note ,.there should also be a spring between the u/j and the bottom bearing to remove the slack in the bottom bearing . visible from under the bonnet .

[moodoo]

Thanks a lot for the suggestions, and for checking your own setup. I spent a while double checking everything this morning. It turns out (I’m 90% sure) that the noise is actually coming from play in the bottom universal joint. 

I’ve found there is play in the joint. If I get the wife to rock the steering wheel gently, the ‘clack clack’ is there, as per my earlier video. If I then wedge the uj a little, the noise disappears. The crazy thing is that when you’re driving it, it just sounds exactly as if there’s something loose/rattling at the back of the steering wheel, at the upper bearing area. I guess it might be the play in the joint, but the sound is traveling into the cabin up the shaft. At least that’s my current thinking!

have to see how to get hold of a new universal joint. Anyone know if my A series would have the same joint as for a B series...and where to get one?

Thanks again all for the help. Great to see the forum is still ‘there’ when you need help!

[H-400]

Had a look at a German website and they have both the same order number.

[611]

On 24/04/2021 at 20:46, moodoo said:

Thanks a lot for the suggestions, and for checking your own setup. I spent a while double checking everything this morning. It turns out (I’m 90% sure) that the noise is actually coming from play in the bottom universal joint. 

I’ve found there is play in the joint. If I get the wife to rock the steering wheel gently, the ‘clack clack’ is there, as per my earlier video. If I then wedge the uj a little, the noise disappears. The crazy thing is that when you’re driving it, it just sounds exactly as if there’s something loose/rattling at the back of the steering wheel, at the upper bearing area. I guess it might be the play in the joint, but the sound is traveling into the cabin up the shaft. At least that’s my current thinking!

have to see how to get hold of a new universal joint. Anyone know if my A series would have the same joint as for a B series...and where to get one?

Thanks again all for the help. Great to see the forum is still ‘there’ when you need help!

Fin, I use to have one of the A series UJ's up in the loft that i think was in pretty good condition, i can have a look on Tuesday and let you know. Not needed on mine now i have changed the setup 🙂

Andy

[cam.in.head]

thatl be it then. the bottom joints can and do wear. even a small amount of wear shows up. easy enough to replace when you find one. 

[611]

Hey Fin

Im off tomorrow and will have a rummage in the loft and see if i can track down the UJ

 

Andy

[moodoo]

Great, thanks Andy! 

On changing the joint...better to take the rack off, and do it from that end, or take the column out, and do it from that side?

[cam.in.head]

neither. just undo the uj bolts completely and also the sliding shaft bolt below it. this shaft should then just slide  down out of the way enough to replace uj. make sure you fit the spring above it .

but

if the shaft wont move then its only 2 bolts that hold the rack to the crossmember anyway .