Polar White and Rust - a restoration epic, can it even be done?

[cam.in.head]

Hi ian. You are cracking on well by the sound of it . Well done so far.its very satisfying isn’t it.

one tip I would advise when repairing the doors .find a couple of suitable long bolts as temporary hinge pins and keep trying the door back on the car when you are letting in any repairs to the bottoms as it’s so easy to get the angles out and you end up with doors that either don’t follow the body curve correctly or end up with wrong panel gaps..

happy tinkering !

[IanMc]

Thanks Chris, as always your help, advice and encouragement is greatly appreciated. 

[IanMc]

Little bit more progress early evening after being out for the day in this glorious sunshine.

I made up the cardboard templates and then cut out the corner pieces for the back support of the door skin and the main door bottom with the flange that also meets and suppoprts the door skin.

Here are the two corners just tacked in, sorry about the scruffy welds! 

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And here are the two door bottom / skin support pieces bend and ready to tack in place:

 

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Unfortunately my sheet metal bender has a max component length of 770 mm, so I had to make this part in two pieces... doh!  Oh well, it will be on the bottom of the door so not too much of an issue really.

Edited June 30, 2018 by IanMc

[IanMc]

Early start today and made some progress on the N/S door.

Managed to get the door bottom repair strip tacked in, seems OK. It was a little trickier than I had imagined because I forgot about the two low points (presumably to aid drainage) and subsequently I hadn't allowed for the required 'flex' in the strip. Therefore I had to add some cuts with the tin snips after I had already got a fair way down with the tacks - Doh! - sometimes I really am my own worst enemy  

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My Son bought some of this last week to do a job on his bike:

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It seemed to come out pretty well, so it got me wondering about the headlamp bowls... Once I get something in my head, I just have to do it. So with a spare I have I set to work with stripping, sanding and priming (not shown in the photo)

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I'm off now to add some chrome spray to see what we get. I'm not at all optimistic that it will be any good for this application, but for £4 I was just too curious - photos later.

[IanMc]

Afternoon all.

First an update on the chrome effect spray I tried on the headlight bowl. Is it any good? - well it doesn't look chrome to me, more a 'clean' Silver lol

Would it pass an MOT, no idea - if/when I reach that stage I might leave that lamp fitted and see how it gets on. It does certainly look way better than it did though, see for yourselves (sorry I forgot to take one with the headlight disassembled).

 

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Now back to the N/S door....

Getting ready and with the new Steel tacked in place.

 

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Then started filling in the gaps.

 

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At this point I noticed that one piece, probably about 6-8 inches long was sitting proud of the original skin, so I ground the tacks down, hammered it back flush and started again.

 

After that I ground down some of the welds to make sure that everything was going to be alright. Grinding the door while resting in my workmate was a bit of a pain, so I decided to do the rest after the door was back on the car.

This one shows the bottom of the door being folded over the flange/backing plate. I used heat, pliers a hammer a dolly to get it right. This photo was taken about half way through. The red line was the dimension I had to achieve (379 mm for the record from the side moulding mounting pins) to get the door straight in the aperture and hopefully look OK.

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This last one is with the door back on the car and with the wing roughly held in place along with the sill strip used on Cavs. I have 'lost' about 2 mm approx half way down the door, which is a bummer, but all in all I'm reasonably happy with how it turned out - anything is better than rust though! I might actually use my MIG welded to build up that center section slightly if it really stands later.

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Thats it from me this weekend. Enjoy your evening everyone.   

 

[Snowy]

46 minutes ago, IanMc said:

Afternoon all.

First an update on the chrome effect spray I tried on the headlight bowl. Is it any good? - well it doesn't look chrome to me, more a 'clean' Silver lol

Would it pass an MOT, no idea - if/when I reach that stage I might leave that lamp fitted and see how it gets on. It does certainly look way better than it did though, see for yourselves (sorry I forgot to take one with the headlight disassembled).

 

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Now back to the N/S door....

Getting ready and with the new Steel tacked in place.

 

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Then started filling in the gaps.

 

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At this point I noticed that one piece, probably about 6-8 inches long was sitting proud of the original skin, so I ground the tacks down, hammered it back flush and started again.

 

After that I ground down some of the welds to make sure that everything was going to be alright. Grinding the door while resting in my workmate was a bit of a pain, so I decided to do the rest after the door was back on the car.

This one shows the bottom of the door being folded over the flange/backing plate. I used heat, pliers a hammer a dolly to get it right. This photo was taken about half way through. The red line was the dimension I had to achieve (379 mm for the record from the side moulding mounting pins) to get the door straight in the aperture and hopefully look OK.

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This last one is with the door back on the car and with the wing roughly held in place along with the sill strip used on Cavs. I have 'lost' about 2 mm approx half way down the door, which is a bummer, but all in all I'm reasonably happy with how it turned out - anything is better than rust though! I might actually use my MIG welded to build up that center section slightly if it really stands later.

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Thats it from me this weekend. Enjoy your evening everyone.   

 

Depending how long a run you need to add metal too the old trick was to weld welding rod you the doors to close up gaps. 

[cam.in.head]

Hi ian. If you are spraying the headlamp housings silver then that will be fine but ive never found a chrome spray that is good enough for the reflectors.obviously i cant see your pictures but if its the bottom of the reflectors you may get away with it but  not the sides. (See what the beam pattern looks like) easy enough to replace the reflector if needs be.watch out for the white retaining brackets.they are very brittle if you do.

 

 

[IanMc]

3 hours ago, Snowy said:

Depending how long a run you need to add metal too the old trick was to weld welding rod you the doors to close up gaps. 

Yes I have seen that done, but many thanks for reminding me Snowy 

3 hours ago, cam.in.head said:

Hi ian. If you are spraying the headlamp housings silver then that will be fine but ive never found a chrome spray that is good enough for the reflectors.obviously i cant see your pictures but if its the bottom of the reflectors you may get away with it but  not the sides. (See what the beam pattern looks like) easy enough to replace the reflector if needs be.watch out for the white retaining brackets.they are very brittle if you do.

 

 

Yes your right, thanks Chris.

[®evo03]

Good job Ian, 

6 hours ago, Snowy said:

Depending how long a run you need to add metal too the old trick was to weld welding rod you the doors to close up gaps. 

Snowy, what do u mean? How does this work, really interested

[Snowy]

11 hours ago, ®evo03 said:

Good job Ian, 

Snowy, what do u mean? How does this work, really interested

You get what ever diameter welding rod that would suit your gap.

Then let's say you wanted to close up a gap between the wing and door. You'd weld the rod to the front edge of the door.

It's just a way of keeping a uniform change to a gap over a long distance. 

[IanMc]

Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZlX_3cv-aQ

[IanMc]

A few little fill in jobs tonight:

1) Put some primer on the external bare metal of the repaired sections on the N/S door

2) Applied some seam sealer to the bottom folded seal on the same door, making sure that the drain holes were not obscured of course.

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3) Applied some primer and some old top coat on the exposed bare metal inside the door cavity. Tomorrow I will follow this up with some Waxoyl, so hopefully that will keep the rust at bay for a while.

4) Oh yeah and my angle grinder with cutting disc slipped again:

 

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I will level that horizontal bottom cut up with the two vertical side cuts to make the repair panel square in that area.

Tomorrow evening I will get the cardboard out again and try to plan some patches for that area.

 

 

[IanMc]

I think that I am going to need four separate small plates welded together to fix this area:

 

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[Snowy]

6 hours ago, IanMc said:

I think that I am going to need four separate small plates welded together to fix this area:

If you are going to weld the four pieces together think about how the trim piece fits after and make sure you can grind your welds to suit. or it will always sit funny.

 

[IanMc]

30 minutes ago, Snowy said:

If you are going to weld the four pieces together think about how the trim piece fits after and make sure you can grind your welds to suit. or it will always sit funny.

 

You are correct Sir, many thanks.  

[IanMc]

This evening my intention was to try to get another hole plugged. You will remember that I started with this rusty mess:

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Which was then cut away to leave this lovely hole lol:

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With the plates cut out last night I made a start. I began by tacking in the bottom two plates:

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Then moved on to the triangular plate:

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And finally the curved / closing plate:

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Obviously a few more welds will need to be added then they will all be ground down. I'm reasonably pleased with things so far.

Have a nice evening everyone.

[IanMc]

Tonight I decided to make a start on what I firmly believe is the worst and most challenging part of this whole car (considering my skill set anyway lol) - the N/S/R wheel arch and back of the sill area. I have known since I had the car delivered last November that this was by far the most rotten part.

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After taking some reference dimension I started using the knotted wire wheel on the grinder to get a bit of a better look at the size of the job ahead:

 

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As you can see, this is going to be a massive test for my feeble, inexperienced fabricating and welding abilities.

Oh well, no sense in worrying about it, whats the worst that could happen....    

We shall see what the weekend brings I guess.  

[Monaco Blue]

22 hours ago, IanMc said:

 

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Obviously a few more welds will need to be added then they will all be ground down. I'm reasonably pleased with things so far.

That should look pretty good once you have dressed it smooth. 

As for the next challenge, good luck with that! 

[Snowy]

1 hour ago, IanMc said:

Tonight I decided to make a start on what I firmly believe is the worst and most challenging part of this whole car (considering my skill set anyway lol) - the N/S/R wheel arch and back of the sill area. I have known since I had the car delivered last November that this was by far the most rotten part.

After taking some reference dimension I started using the knotted wire wheel on the grinder to get a bit of a better look at the size of the job ahead:

As you can see, this is going to be a massive test for my feeble, inexperienced fabricating and welding abilities.

Oh well, no sense in worrying about it, whats the worst that could happen....    

We shall see what the weekend brings I guess.  

Just remember that the rear inner sill is actually a separate panel. The spot welds can be seen from inside the car.

I find it easier to remove the panel and replace it completely.

[®evo03]

Ian,  once you get that inner sill addressed, gives you something to weld too. If you replacing sections its easier than doing mammoth weldathons.

Sills and rear arch repair panels are available, rear sill section shouldnt be that hard for you to make from scratch, measure, template, fold, sorted! And given you metal skills so far! 

I always keep it in the back of my head, its only metal, and it once started as a flat piece too! 

And someone once told me a front wing arch area is very very close profile to rear arch, all u need to do is find a good bad, cheap wing! 

How about making one of these, made one for 7 or 8 quid, For joggling the arch edge that meets quarter panel

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[IanMc]

8 hours ago, ®evo03 said:

Ian,  once you get that inner sill addressed, gives you something to weld too. If you replacing sections its easier than doing mammoth weldathons.

Sills and rear arch repair panels are available, rear sill section shouldnt be that hard for you to make from scratch, measure, template, fold, sorted! And given you metal skills so far! 

I always keep it in the back of my head, its only metal, and it once started as a flat piece too! 

And someone once told me a front wing arch area is very very close profile to rear arch, all u need to do is find a good bad, cheap wing! 

How about making one of these, made one for 7 or 8 quid, For joggling the arch edge that meets quarter panel

 

 

Morning Evo, I hope that you are well today.

Many thanks for your input - as always it is most helpful and informative. I still have the old front wing kicking around and with your comment in my head I checked the profile - and yes they are indeed very close. It's really only the slope in to the body that varies slightly. Good shout that!

As it happens, I bought a cheap joggling tool a few months ago in preparation for this type of work - its one of those that doubles as a punch for puddle welding holes. Your home made one looks go though, great idea.

Fortunately the Cavaliers had wheel arch trims fitted, and mine are all present. Therefore, my plan is to use that as a template for the profile that I need to achieve. Rest assured, I wont be cutting anything off or out until I am satisfied that I have enough information/reference points to work with.

A few months ago I bought a couple of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-WHEEL-ARCH-REPAIR-PANEL-BODY-PANEL-/122210763424?clk_rvr_id=1589360304678&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=twenga&utm_campaign=twenga&utm_param=eyJlcyI6MCwicyI6OTcyMDIzNywiY2kiOiIwMzFlMjVlMjliZmExNGI2Y2Y3YTFiOWRjZjAwMjk1ZSIsImkiOiIxMzE1Njk5NjQyODEyODMzMzEyIiwidHMiOjE1MzA4NTkxOTAsInYiOjMsInNvIjoxNTAwLCJjIjoxNzQwNTh9&rmvSB=true

My thinking was to clamp the panel to the Cav's arch trim, then gradually weld up the slots until I had a rigid panel of the right shape - then work up/back from then with the rest of that area. I always like to have an outline of a plan of attack in my head, invariably you have to deviate occasionally to get to your goal, but you have to have a plan in my view.

Have a great day everyone  

[moodoo]

Fair play for keeping at it...you don't do sitting around , do you?! Thanks for taking the time to post up here too, all good info for those of us not expert welders! I'm not sure if you mentioned it anywhere above, but what are you using to grind the welds down, a flap disc? I'm always amazed when someone in one photo shows a picture of a patch welded in, and then in the next picture the welds are completely invisible after 'a bit of grinding down'...it's never like that in the world I live in!

[IanMc]

A little bit of progress this evening before the football started.

I clamped the universal wheel arch panel to what was left on the car to get the basic shape:

 

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Then while it was still clamped to the car I tacked the segments together to give it some more rigidity - this is it after it had been taken off the car:

 

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While that repair panel was still clamped in place, I marked back/in 30 mm to good Steel all round. This will be my cut line for the outer skin. This cut away section will be put to one side, then used as reference points and shape template as and when required.

My plan is that this will then expose enough of the rusty inner skin to allow me to wire brush it back, then extend it out again with good Steel. It will of course extend enough to meet the new Steel of the outer skin/arch repair panel for strength. 

That's the idea anyway...

Hopefully photos of that to follow tomorrow   

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by IanMc

[®evo03]

These are a good shape, and cheap, and readly available, and correct length once split, and are used constantly for tubbing drift cars. 

Gm too! 45 g oil drum. 

[IanMc]

20 hours ago, moodoo said:

Fair play for keeping at it...you don't do sitting around , do you?! Thanks for taking the time to post up here too, all good info for those of us not expert welders! I'm not sure if you mentioned it anywhere above, but what are you using to grind the welds down, a flap disc? I'm always amazed when someone in one photo shows a picture of a patch welded in, and then in the next picture the welds are completely invisible after 'a bit of grinding down'...it's never like that in the world I live in!

Ha ha, thanks moodoo.

I'm actually only using a standard metal grinding disc in my angle grinder. In fact I am waiting for my supplier to get a fresh batch in for me as I am half way through my last one, hence the not wanting to grind anything down that is deemed non-essential at the moment. As soon as he tells me that the new stock is in I can get stuck into that work.